How to explain motion if time does not exist

@Syne

Indeed mind-boggling.

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but the OP is about How to explain motion if time does not exist

you explain motion by the interactions between objects because of their very nature and likewise to the lone object as well

inotherwords it is all the qualities of the object(s) combined that explain any kind of motion by the object(s)

 

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or more simply put ;

time is based on movement and movemnt is based on the object(s) nature

 

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I can think of two ways to represent motion without time:

(1) As velocity. Normally v=dx/dt, but for t=0, the velocity is always infinite, forever and for all of space.

(2) As trajectory. Remove the temporal dimension altogether. Project 4D reality into a hypothetical 3D space. The motion of a square sheet, 1cm[SUP]2[/SUP], traveling for 1 cm in a straight line perpendicular to its surface, projects a solid cube of 1 cc volume visible to a hypothetical observer looking into the hypothetical 3D space.

 

nevertheless , t=0 , t still represents time , which is not possible , BB again

but how does this explain Motion without time

you travel , why ? what is the impetus ?

 

(1) Division by zero is not defined, and does not equal infinity. If t=0 then you have no way to determine the velocity.

(2) There would still be a delay between start and end events, if there were any motion.

 

Without time there can be no motion. And space cannot be seperated from time, it is called spacetime for a reason. Motion is defined as change of spatial position over time. So the OP's question is like asking how do you walk without legs(scooting on your but is not walking). Time is an intregal part of spacetime and if it was removed there would be absolutely no movement or change until it was replaced.

Grumpy

 

I said nothing about division by zero. I started with the classical definition of velocity as the time rate of change of position, then noted that one possible interpretation of the OP is one that sets t=0. I merely stated that an infinite velocity would be required to create any spatial displacement in zero time. I'm not sure what you think I'm advocating, certainly not the OP.

No, I gave you a projection from 4-space to 3-space. Time does not exist in the 3-space, so delay can not exist within that projection.

 

The OP is asking about a scenario in which the temporal dimension has collapsed. "Possible" is undefined in this context. The laws of physics have been altered.

 

Or everywhere at once! Everywhere at once so it could be seen here or there, without the passage of time for it is everywhere at once.

 

That was pretty much my point. There would need to be at least two realities: one like ours, in which time is measurable and motion is observable; and a second reality in which all of the possible states occur at once, but also forever, which is a consequence of existing outside of time. Also, to be everywhere at once is equivalent to having infinite velocity. Furthermore these two realities would have to be (somehow) "the same".

 

Space and time do not seem to be separate they are one as space-time so I doubt that something can exist everywhere at once in space-time.

 

Motion is the ability to relocate from one place
to another. If there is no time or space for this object to move into it moves intrinsically. When it moves intrinsically it's actions are imprinted into non existent space. In this non existent space all actions of the past exist simultaneously.

 

@Nietzschehimself

Motion is to relocate from one place to another in both space and time. Without space-time there is no notion of time, past or future.​

 

AqueousID: "No, I gave you a projection from 4-space to 3-space. Time does not exist in the 3-space, so delay can not exist within that projection."

4 to 3 space is an easy projection . . . . . . now try the 'hard' ones . . . . 5 (or more dimensions) to lower dimensional spaces . . . . the stuff of string theory. BTW: in your projection, one of the 3-space ordinates 'could' be time . . . if you live in 'flatland' (<--humor here)/ In your projection, one could still be describing 'motion' (in time) along a planar surface of travel.

IMPO ( for James): Actually the 'projective' technique you incorporate may prove to be a valuable tool in visualizing higher dimensions. I use the method quite often in geochemical and petrologic applications to describe systems with 4 or more 'entangled' variables.

 

NietzscheHimself

Motion is the relocation from one place to another over time. Without time there can be no motion, no change, no movement, no light.

Grumpy

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If t=0 in
v=dx/dt
then
dt = 0
and
v=dx/0

You may not realize it, but you very directly said division by zero, as this is the only result of making t=0. As you can see, if t=0 then v is undefined, not infinite.

If there is no delay then it is static and there is no motion.

 

Let's start at the end and work backwards.

What is the projection of a cylinder onto a plane that is orthogonal to the axis of the cylinder?

 

A circle, continue.

 

A solid cylinder projects a disc onto a 2D surface. So that's a transformation from 3D to 2D. In the reverse, a 2D disc traversing the axis describes a cylinder in 3-space. So two overlapping coordinate systems, one being the 3-space (x,y,z) with no time axis, and the second being 2-space plus time, (x,y,t), where z and t are coincident, will produce this projection.

Note you will get the same result by integrating over all time. The integral with respect to time of every instantaneous location of the disk produces a solid cylinder. I will call this an extrusion.

The next step is to project spacetime (x,y,z,t) onto 3-space (x,y,z), in other words, allow time to collapse, in other words, nullify the laws of physics. This can be compared to landing directly "on" the event horizon. Forget that it's impossible, we were given an impossibility in the OP and asked to define motion. So that's all I did. Here you get an extrusion of all that ever was and ever will be, in other words, every "location" in space that ever was occupied by matter, and ever will be occupied, is joined into a super solid (3D integrated over time) extrusion. The conditions now are as follows: the (x,y,z,t) world represents the real world, with time, motion and physics. The (x,y,z) world, where time has collapsed, is an eternal extrusion representing every state of reality that ever was and ever will be, and the laws of physics are nullified.

This motion that exists in one world has a hypothetical/impossible timeless and eternal extrusion in a hypothetical/impossible parallel world.

As for dx/dt, it's not a division operation. It's called a derivative. My point was that it requires infinite velocity to traverse any distance in zero time. For the fantasy physics given in the OP this is a possible interpretation. In other words, if the OP is asking for a world that has motion in an impossible zero span of time, then that motion is an equally impossible infinite velocity.

So that covers two ways to represent motion under the absurd condition of "no time".

Everyone else is saying "impossible". I'm saying "(a) is one impossible representation and (b) is another". I'm just being more specific than the rest of the folks here, nothing more.