How was slavery introduced into America

Discussion in 'Human Science' started by arauca, Feb 21, 2013.

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  1. lightgigantic

    lightgigantic Banned Banned

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    that even the act of being a slave isn't somehow edifying in determining the "wrongness" of it

    Its more the suggestion that labour (and preferably the cheaper the better) has always been a perennial need of human society

    The language was used to bridge the gap that you appear to be trying to construct in framing "slavery" as something "other" or belonging to a totally different era born out of needs, interests and concerns totally divorced from what you perceive to be the contemporary world. First world economics have always had an inextricable need for underprivileged participants of third world economies
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2013
    lightgigantic, Mar 6, 2013
    #41

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  3. iceaura

    iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    The question was about the point of that irrelevancy. Why did you post it?
    No it wasn't. No such suggestion had anything to do with my post or yours, nor is it relevant to the thread.
    Oh yeah - I forgot what you were like. Washing my hands, and apologies to the forum.
     
    iceaura, Mar 6, 2013
    #42

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  5. lightgigantic

    lightgigantic Banned Banned

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    guess it has something to do with the Op , namely "slavery" and "establishing"

    go back and read your posts to see how you have been trying to stamp out any modern parallel with slavery
    will the irony never end?
    :shrug:
     
    lightgigantic, Mar 6, 2013
    #43

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  7. Fraggle Rocker

    Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    An employee is free to walk away if she decides that she can no longer tolerate the conditions of employment. Admittedly, this can be difficult in a bad economy when another job will be hard to find, in a country with poor social services to help the unemployed survive, and/or in a culture where people of her ethnicity, gender, religion, etc., are not respected. Nonetheless it makes slavery quite different from voluntary employment in the mind of both employee and employer.

    More to the point, the question was asked in the context of 21st-century Western civilization. Our economies may be weak, but nonetheless roughly 90% of the people have jobs so this lady will probably find a new one before long. All of the Western countries have strong social service networks so she will not starve or freeze to death, her children will still be able to go to school and receive medical care, and our guilt-ridden prosperous citizens generously support our churches and secular charities who will do their best to find her temporaray housing and a new job. Finally, although racism has hardly disappeared here, she will not be left to die and be eaten by buzzards just because she is black/ Jewish/ Hmong/ Muslim/ whatever--in fact those communities have their own charities. Besides, we all understand the concept of "public health" so none of us will allow somebody to fall down on the sidewalk and die because we'll catch her germs.

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    My wife used to work at a tutoring academy in the eastern suburbs of Los Angeles where the majority of the population came from East Asian countries. She assigned her class to write a short story. One Korean girl wrote one about a woman who was sick but had no money for a doctor. She collapsed on the sidewalk and people just walked around her. A day or two later she died and finally someone called the police to carry the body away because it smelled bad and was attracting flies. Mrs. Fraggle said, "That is not realistic. Unless she collapses out in the desert, lots of people will see her, within five minutes someone will call an ambulance, and five minutes later she'll be taken to a hospital." The little girl said, "But in my story I said that she had no money to pay for a doctor." Mrs. F. answered, "That doesn't matter. In the USA we will bring her back to health first and THEN worry about who's going to pay for it. If she has no money, no relatives and no insurance, we'll pay for it out of our tax money. We'll complain about it, but we'll still do it."

    The girl broke into the biggest smile my wife had ever seen, and said, "Is this really true? Is this what Americans are like? Is this the kind of country my parents brought me to? I LOVE this place and I LOVE you people! In most places in Korea they would let her die on the sidewalk and just keep stepping over her body."

    She loved that job and it's probably what she misses most about L.A.

    Anyway, back on topic... The "difference between a slave and an in-house maid" is the nature of the contract. A slave has no rights under the law and only his master can alter the terms of his contract, including manumission, which was almost never granted in the Old South. A maid's position is voluntary. She can terminate her contract at any time, with the reasonable provision that she might have to give two week's advance notice so the employer has time to replace her--and the employer also has obligations such as paying her for unused vacation time.

    In the early days of the country, indentured servitude was practiced. A person from another country "bought a ticket" to America by promising to work for an American for no pay for a specific period of time, typically five years (IIRC). During that time, he indeed lived as a slave, but the difference was that every day he could look at the calendar and see that he was one day closer to freedom. It was also possible for him to earn money on the side by working for other employers, making it possible for him to buy his way out of his contract. A family member could also buy the contract if he had the money. Some employers were very kind and their servants repaid their kindness by being very loyal and industrious, sometimes motivating the employer to terminate the contract early. In the early years when slavery was also practiced in the North, slaves sometimes had the same experiences. But in the South, there were virtually no free black people, so unless a slave had help moving to the North, there wasn't really any practical way for his master to free him. The best they could do was to treat them kindly, without arousing the ire of the other slaveowners on nearby plantations, who didn't want their own slaves to be encouraged to ask for the same kindness.

    -------------------------------------------

    You obviously are not an American, and if you live here you haven't spent much time learning about our country. You really don't understand it at all if you believe something as silly as a maid being equivalent to a slave. We've spent the last 150 years fixing that and it's very insulting of you to deliberately not notice. Perhaps you need a time machine so you can go back to an era and a place in which people of your ethnicity (whatever it is) were kept as slaves. Maybe then you'd understand the huge difference!

    In the meantime I'd advise you to listen more and talk less.
     
    Fraggle Rocker, Mar 6, 2013
    #44
  8. arauca

    arauca Banned Banned

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    It seams to me that you have not been out of the USA in an other so called third nations, so you see only one picture . Beside you advice you can give it to your children , I empress other views beside your kind and other view sometime are enlightening or stimulating. You can see , how it stimulated you that you had to sit down an compose a lot of lines .
    From I come and in home maid many times starts as a young girl in the lower teens and she stay with the family until adult and it becom3s as a part of a family , but she knows her place. So I don't see much difference between slave and an in home made . I could tell you more , but what fore you have a closed mind on the subject.
     
    arauca, Mar 6, 2013
    #45
  9. iceaura

    iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    If you can see little difference between a maid and a slave, your contributions to a thread about the introduction of slavery into America will be of little relevance. A thread on how housecleaning help was introduced to to America would be a quite different thread (granted with some interesting areas of overlap).

    Lots of Americans know how such things like that are done in third world countries, and if we didn't we have folks like you to describe how the household help in third world countries and banana republics and oil kingdoms and the like is treated like slaves and "knows their place".

    We ran that shit off, or most of it, at gunpoint.
     
    iceaura, Mar 7, 2013
    #46
  10. Aqueous Id

    Aqueous Id flat Earth skeptic Valued Senior Member

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    How bonds are formed:

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    ​

    Revisionist history blames the owners:

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    Revisionist history:

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    The majority of the men of the North, and of the South and East and West, are not men of principle. If they vote, they do not send men to Congress on errands of humanity; but while their brothers and sisters are being scourged and hung for loving liberty, while — I might here insert all that slavery implies and is — it is the mismanagement of wood and iron and stone and gold which concerns them. Do what you will, O Government, with my wife and children, my mother and brother, my father and sister, I will obey your commands to the letter. It will indeed grieve me if you hurt them, if you deliver them to overseers to be hunted by bounds or to be whipped to death; but, nevertheless, I will peaceably pursue my chosen calling on this fair earth, until perchance, one day, when I have put on mourning for them dead, I shall have persuaded you to relent. ​
     
    Aqueous Id, Mar 7, 2013
    #47
  11. joepistole

    joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Slavery was first introduced into the Americas by indigenous Indians. Humans of every stripe of every color have enslaved others at some point in history.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_among_Native_Americans_in_the_United_States
     
    joepistole, Mar 7, 2013
    #48
  12. arauca

    arauca Banned Banned

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    Let the white American with an English last name and some wealthy Jews feel guilty for slavery. Us with Polish Russian Check last name we don't feel guilty for what the English have done.
     
    arauca, Mar 7, 2013
    #49
  13. arauca

    arauca Banned Banned

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    Pardon the people with Latin last name also don't have to feel guilty . The American blacks include discriminate against the Spanish speaking people.
     
    arauca, Mar 7, 2013
    #50
  14. arauca

    arauca Banned Banned

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    I don't know if those scars are real they are to large in height direction. By the way African cultures scars themselves as an expression of courage or manhood . Wa had slave labor in Germany and in Russia were people died by the million .
     
    arauca, Mar 7, 2013
    #51
  15. arauca

    arauca Banned Banned

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    arauca, Mar 7, 2013
    #52
  16. LaurieAG

    LaurieAG Registered Senior Member

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    British and Irish slaves in the Caribbean

    http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/showthread.php/7569-British-and-Irish-slaves-in-the-Caribbean

     
    LaurieAG, Mar 13, 2013
    #53
  17. iceaura

    iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    We in the US shot, bombed, burned, and ruined as many of those slavetaking people as we could, driving the German and Japanese ones out of business entirely. And we're still proud of that - it's one of the things we did right, as country.

    And when we were told, by the slavers, that what they were doing was just like hiring factory help or maid service; when we read the signs posted at the camp entrances that read "Work Makes One Free"; when we heard the people with the Czech names and the Polish names claim that they were just putting their Jews to work or the Germans made them do it or whatever;

    we didn't exactly laugh, because it wasn't exactly funny, but we knew better. Because America was a slave country for over two hundred years, something like 80 of them on an industrial scale using an isolated group we called a "race" special caught and designated. We know how this stuff works.

    That would have been a bit early for the US slavery boom - very few of those people came here: we didn't have the security or the institutional religious oppression to handle them, and their fragility in malaria and yellow fever zones made them uneconomical anyway. The US had slaves, of course - still in the experimental stage, trying out all the races and setups.
     
    iceaura, Mar 14, 2013
    #54
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