Humans are artifact adoring artisans

Discussion in 'General Philosophy' started by coberst, May 20, 2007.

  1. coberst Registered Senior Member

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    Humans are artifact adoring artisans

    Humans are meme (idea) adoring creators.

    Humans create symbols (abstract ideas) upon which they place value sufficient for killing and dying.

    Americans create a flag (an artifact of cloth) which symbolizes the value they place in a nation (artifact, idea, meme) for which they will really kill and die (nothing artificial here).

    Humans require meaningful symbols upon which to give life sufficient purpose for living, dying, and killing.

    Because humans can create their own meaningful artifacts why does our species place meaning into such dangerous artifacts (memes, ideologies) as religion, nation, capitalism, communism, etc?

    The freedom we have to create that which is meaningful to us is poorly used, why?

    Why do we waste such a precious freedom on such dangerous toys?

    We do so because we lack the courage (self-reliance) to go against the flow.

    Our adaptation to society as infants and children has left us without the courage and confidence required to go against the flow of society. We have the freedom but not the energy and courage to overcome the blind habit of conformity.

    We are not determined atoms; we do have the potential to do much better. How can we overcome what we have become and thus become something better?

    We can overcome our present predicament by creating a new reality, a new set of meaningful symbols that we choose to give value.

    Imagination is the instrument by which we can overcome.
     
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  3. Communist Hamster Cricetulus griseus leninus Valued Senior Member

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    A good public education system is the key.
     
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  5. Oli Heute der Enteteich... Registered Senior Member

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    By creating new memes? And once humans get hold of them how dangerous will they be?

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  7. Grantywanty Registered Senior Member

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    My emphasis of the word 'we' added.

    Who is this 'we'?
    You are writing to an unseen internet audiance, some (many?) of whom do not share your values, yet you refer to us as part of a 'we' with you. Or do you mean ALL humans should do this?

    I have always found this 'we' address very strange. I think because it seems to not recognize the glaring lack of 'we'ness. A fact that is not all bad, of course.
     
  8. coberst Registered Senior Member

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    We means us, it means most people, it means most of the population.
     
  9. nietzschefan Thread Killer Valued Senior Member

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    I have to agree - lose the 'we', I find symbolism very repugnant personally. Even if you have an ancient very powerful, meaningful symbol like say the swaztika it can be converted to evil purposes.

    Yes I think the swaztika is a perfect example of what coberst is saying.

    Even my own country's "Maple Leaf", a symbol I spent some time aligning myself to and indeed dedicating a decade of life to, is a lost cause. It absolutely means "Peace and freedom" to every sentient Canadian. To the rest of the world I have found it is a laughing stock. The reactionary aggressive nationalism that is invoked by my reaction to the universal nit-wit outsider, is the exact opposite feeling that the symbol is supposed to give. Conclusion: symbols are as useless as coberst suggests.

    Again I agree, instead of 'we' use 'some people' or some other mechanic.
     
  10. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

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    23,053
    Interesting. Then that means that some 49% see things differently than you've suggested. What do you think about that, Coberst? Or should I be asking the author of whatever book you're reading at present where you found you little tidbit of "info"?

    He who regurgitates is often called "sick".

    Baron Max
     
  11. nietzschefan Thread Killer Valued Senior Member

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    7,721
    He usually provides references at the end of his post, this one did not. It might be his own thoughts. Why be so vehement in denouncing it? No wonder, hardly anyone post in philosophy.
     
  12. coberst Registered Senior Member

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    I think that many young people think that to be negative is to be cool.
     
  13. Oli Heute der Enteteich... Registered Senior Member

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    But it isn't.
     
  14. Argyroneta Registered Member

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    Coberst...
    you don't half have some weird ideas!

    Please explain how humans can possibly be art, artifacts, artificial etc. etc. Didn't we invent that?
     
  15. Grantywanty Registered Senior Member

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    1,888
    Most of the population will not use their imagination as you would like them to. The inclusiveness of that we seems odd and misleading to me. Let's say someone with fascist tendencies reads your post and agrees. They turn to their imagination, to invent new symbols and so on...and, should they hit upon catchy, compelling etc. symbols perhaps will use these to contribute to societal trends you would not like.

    I am not simply being petty here. I think there is a habit in your post that is a part of the problem. This hallucinated we implies, often, that the problem is a practical one. That is 'we' - most of population - engaged in the imaginative actitivity you imagine this would lead to the good. But given that many of that 'we' do not want freedom, want to inhibit creativity in others, think that people need to be controlled in ways you do not and so on, even if they all suddenly went along with your idea I truly doubt it would improve things even in your sense of what improvement is.

    Another way to put this is: I don't think you've quite noticed the people you include in this 'we': what they want, what they would accomplish if they could, what they are already struggling hard to inhibit, make, produce and so on.

    or to put this yet another way: Good people need to first notice the lack of 'we' ness and truly come to grips with that before their solutions have a chance of improving things.
     
  16. coberst Registered Senior Member

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    I never said what you imply.

    What I said was that humans use imagination to create symbols, i.e. abstract ideas that become valuable enough to live, kill, and die for.

    The reason you find my ideas to be weird is because you are not focusing your attention upon what you are reading. I suspect all of us have learned to do this same thing in school. The teacher said read these 100 pages for homewok and we do, never taking our mind off of everything else except what we are reading.
     
  17. coberst Registered Senior Member

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    949
    Grantywanty

    Some of the things you write here are correct.
     
  18. Grantywanty Registered Senior Member

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    Is this like a test result?

    What was your goal in writing this response?
     
  19. redarmy11 Registered Senior Member

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    And what about vengeful old pensioners (hi Max!)?
     
  20. coberst Registered Senior Member

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    To encourage your writing things that are important.
     
  21. coberst Registered Senior Member

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    949

    Most older people just go on their apathetic, and ignorant way without any thought about things beyond their day-to-day existence.
     
  22. redarmy11 Registered Senior Member

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    Bit of a generalisation there..
     
  23. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

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    That's funny! Just the other day I was thinking about the horrid diseases and poverty in Africa .....and ya' know somethin', it didn't change one single thing in Africa. But I thought about my day-to-day existence, and figured out how to save money and still have enough to eat.

    Which is better? And why?

    Baron Max
     

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