H-kon, Hey dude!! Long time no chat, huh? *S* You know what? You sound EXACTLY like I did. Would it surprise you if I told you that I now believe in God? Yes, ME, Flash! You have read my prior posts before so you know how I have argued and fought for so long to prove that God didn't exist. For me..and I will repeat..for me..what it took was to let all the 100 questions that were filling my head go. Not that one shouldn't look at these questions..it's just I let them fill my head to the point I was blinded to the flip side of the coin. I can not begin to tell you just how much God has changed my life, H-kon. Yes, I have found that he is VERY REAL. Like Lori pointed out...I could sit here all day long and tell you of the many changes but this is something one has to experience. If you would like to chat about this in private...feel free to e-mail me. Have a great day! Flash
Flash, I know you are going to hate me for this but you never really disbelieved in the existence of god, you only found a way with which you can accept him. Could you perhaps tell us how you percieve god ? Is it the God of Lori by any chance ? ------------------ "If I have been able to see further, it was only because I stood on the shoulders of giants." Isaac Newton
Plato, LOL The God of Lori?????????? Well now that's different. *S* I believe in the same God that Lori does, yes. I'd really have to think long and hard about the never having disbelieved. Reason being.. I have totally questioned if he existed or not. BTW..LOL I don't hate you for saying that... come on *S* Let me say this though. I STILL do not believe that the Bible has been translated correctly... but I believe there are good things contained in it to live by and learn from...growth, ya know? I would like to know what you meant by only finding a way with which I can accept him?
I mean that everyone needs a handle somehow to come to grips with their god conceptions, a place to start from and go from there. My start is the denial of a divine intelligence but the acceptence of a possible pantheism, a connecting 'force' which is impersonal and amoral but can be 'felt' by anyone who finds its handle. Take Boris for example (forgive me if I'm putting words in your mouth that you don't want) he is by far the most atheïstic person on this board. He even claims himself to be a-religious but here he goes astray ! He is in fact very religious, not in any traditional way but his optimistic belief in the future and empathic feelings for the entire human race make him far more religious then say Dork or Odysseus who just plain hate all non-believers (meaning not having the same god-concept as they). ------------------ "If I have been able to see further, it was only because I stood on the shoulders of giants." Isaac Newton
Plato, Ok-got it- I see your point. You know... you remind me a lot of someone that used to come here..anyway... Well... some get carried away I guess...so much that they lose sight of their original goal.
Plato, Sorry it took so long to reply...I've been having technical difficulties (i.e. work). My point with the St. Augustine quote was simply that logical contradictions fail the basic requirements of a philosophical foundation. St. Augustine's reply was not designed to prove the existance of a god, but to criticize the scholars who attempted to use this kind of riddle to disprove the existance of a god on the grounds that it fails logic 101. For the record, I am an agnostic. I'll find out soon enough what the answer will be. ------------------ Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. -Mark Twain
It is funny in a way but I meant it seriously Lori. What I mean is that our images of god all differ a little bit, each has his or her own interpretation of how the divine acts upon us or doesn't act for that matter. So by using the phrase 'the god of X' this means the concepts that X has about the divine.
And the fool said in his heart, "Let me thump my Godly chest for all to hear!" Or am I to understand that you are touchingly concerned for all the fools on this board? In either case, how very faithful of you. ------------------ I am; therefore I think.
bdmart, Thank you for sharing that with us, but I already knew how hatefull the bible stands to atheists. I hope you are a bit more forgiving... ------------------ "If I have been able to see further, it was only because I stood on the shoulders of giants." Isaac Newton
There seems to be some confusion amongst believers and non-believers alike as to what the Bible says about who created evil. Please turn to Isaiah 45:7 for clarification of this point: "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." How foolish it would be to study a DC power source, and then argue amongst ourselves as to whether it is positive or negative! It must be both in order to function as a power source! [This message has been edited by Searcher (edited October 09, 1999).]
Plato, Recently, a friend of mine emailed me an attachment that contained the records of some email chess games that he played with another friend of ours, and told me the outcomes of the games in the body of his email. He explained that in one game his opponent weakened his position by castling queenside, which led to victory for my correspondent. So even before I looked at the records of the games, I knew the outcomes. Does this mean that every choice the players made was an illusion? Just because we swim within the fishbowl of time, doesn't mean that God cannot stand outside that fishbowl and observe all that happens as if in one brief flash.
Searcher, There is a difference. If one does not assume time-travel, or a fishbowl that exists within a larger reality, then one gets the picture of the universe unfolding in time. The future does not exist, and with our free will we craft the future at every moment. However, if there is indeed an outside perspective, where everything that will ever happen already happened, then our "fishbowl" is merely a record playing itself out rather deterministically. At least in God's eye, looking from outside the fish bowl, we have no free will; we are indeed bound and governed by fate -- and nothing we ever do shall lead to anything but the expected outcome... ------------------ I am; therefore I think.
Then assume time travel. Ah, eureka! Or something of the like at least. What's the problem? ------------------ God loves you and so do I!
Lori, I've just read through one inane reply you gave to Tiassa, and now you post an equally brainless one here. Are you drunk again? The entire point of my preceding post is that if time travel is real, then free will does not exist, and all reality is just a record playing itself out. Please, at least <u>try</u> to pay attention! ------------------ I am; therefore I think.
mmm, I think u are slighlty mistaken boris monkee, u say that in Gods eye we have no free will because he knows what will happen in the future and therefore we are following that set path. However, Im sure that if we did have no free will then God would make sure every one does exactly as he wants. He may know the future, but he doesnt make it. ------------------ Im a shambles, but Im Gods shambles!!
I am paying attention, and you're premise is false regarding free will. Apparently you haven't been paying attention. Knowledge of without interfering with. Remember the chess game analogy? Which post to Tiassa are you referring to, and I'll tell you if I was tipsy or not. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! ------------------ God loves you and so do I!
