If God is real, how would you know?

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Jan Ardena, Apr 8, 2020.

  1. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    Truth is trust?
    Can you elaborate?

    No it hasn’t already been explained to me numerous time in this thread.

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    Last edited: Apr 19, 2020
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  3. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    ...less.

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  5. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Certainly not from the crap you spew as the vast forum recognise.
     
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  7. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    Now, you're talking nonsense. Truth is that which is true or in accordance with fact or reality, it has very little to do with faith. Faith is strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof. They are almost opposite of each other.
     
  8. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    They learn facts about the world around them rather than having faith and pretending to know things.

    I don't know what your question means.
     
  9. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    Truth is based on facts, so truth is consistent, reliable with solid foundation, therefore on can place their trust in truth. It's counter to faith which is not based on facts, is inconsistent, unreliable without foundation. Placing your trust in religious faith is like playing russian roulette.
     
  10. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    Ghosts are obvious as well, right?
     
  11. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    Based on your logic, yes.
     
  12. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    Fact have to be based on truth. Not the other way around. “Truth” just is, whether we know it or not.
    Truth, by its very definition, cannot be wrong. Nor does it have to be proven true, or undergo any form of scientific method.
    One doesn’t have to go to any school of education to learn the truth.
    Piltdown Man was a fact, for decades. I’m quite sure folk would have been blasted, and torn down, by folk who didn’t rely on truth.
    Just as folk are today, for rejecting dubious facts, and stories.
    Facts are based on truth to some degree or other. But facts aren’t truth. We can come to the truth via facts.
    It’s kind of silly to compare them, if you comprehend what faith is.
    It wouldn’t surprise me if you were of the idea that people who believe in God, just believe. They have no real reason, or understanding of what it is they profess to believe in. Whereas the kind of faith people of science have are based on facts. Eg; I have faith that the sun will rise tomorrow, based on the fact it has risen every morning.
    Would I be correct?
    I don’t know what that means.
    Can you give me an example?
     
  13. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    So someone who has no facts of the world around them, can never know the truth of anything?
    If we are to “surround ourselves with truth”, where is the location of the truth.
    For example, I think the truth can only come from within. One has to come to realise the truth. Or ones eyes has to be opened to the truth. The “truth” is one, not fragmented.
    The “truth” is all there is, everything else is speculation.
    Where is this truth that you surround tourself with?
     
  14. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    I sea.
     
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  15. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Ignorance is not equal to truth. Someone who learns nothing is ignorant, and knows very little in the way of truth.

    You can learn in places other than schools. But in general you are going to miss out on a lot of truth if you do that.
     
  16. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    You've got it backwards, by definition.

    Have you even looked up the definition of truth? I'll wait.

    Truth doesn't have to be proven true? Lol.

    No one said we did.

    You keep bring up that strawman argument. More proof that you refuse to learn.

    You're very confused, Jan.

    Yes Jan, we know what faith is and it's easy to comprehend. Did you know there are two distinct definitions? I'll bet you'll conflate them.

    Yeah, that's pretty much it. Many Christians haven't even read the Bible.

    It's funny when religious people conflate the two definitions of faith.

    Simple, it means you never know when you're going to be wrong with faith and it usually comes back to bite you when you rely on it.
     
  17. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    You tell me, you're the expert around here on not knowing facts of the world around you.

    That's just metaphysical fluff. Means nothing.

    In facts, Jan. Just the facts, Jan.
     
  18. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    Who are you accusing of being ignorant?
    Is that the truth?
    If you believe it is, did you learn that truth from an institute of learning?
    If you didn’t, but still regard it as the truth, do you think the same process you used to come to that understanding, is;
    1. Naturally available in all humans
    2. Available only to those that have been institutionally trained.
     
  19. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    In science
    In the most basic sense, a scientific fact is an objective and verifiable observation, in contrast with a hypothesis or theory, which is intended to explain or interpret facts. - Wiki

    a thing that is known or proved to be true. - dictionary

    Truth - the quality or state of being true.


    The second half, of the secondary definition, which I am sure you’re going to jump on, in your defence is...

    that which is true or in accordance with fact or reality.


    So in answer to your question, I have looked up the definition, and it is clear that “Truth” stands alone. It is it’s own standard. All ideas, theories, or facts, to have any real credibility, has to reach the standard of “Truth”.
    Why are you laughing out loud?
    “Truth” is the quality or state of being “true”
    It answers to nothing. All honest people seek its approval. Because the Truth just is. It is all pervasive. Meaning those who seek it, shall find it. It is not selective. It is not a case of those who are well educated, have a monopoly on the truth.
    I bring it up because it is a very good example of the difference between facts, and truth.
    It was considered a fact for decades, but it was not the truth.
    What do you find confusing in that quote?
    I will clarify it for you.
    There are only two definitions because atheists do not want to admit they have faith, just like the religious person.
    As a theist, let me help you out of your misunderstanding. You don’t need to read the bible to believe in God. It’s not a prerequisite.

    This is how you can catch atheists who believe they were theists, but now realise it’s all a lie, out.

    They, like you, have no concept of God. They don’t realise that their atheism, lack of, or disbelief in God, is the cause of their world view. Not that they decided upon atheism, due to whatever reason they give.

    As an atheist, you have subconsciously, ceased your relationship with God, and it is for real.

    You think theists just decide to believe in God, because as far as you’re concerned, there is no God.
    It is like being a blind person who accepts their blindness as the only reality of sight. Thereby thinking that the musings of those that claim to see, are delusional, and wishful thinking.
    I don’t have faith that the sun will rise tomorrow. Because I don’t need to have faith for that. I doubt anybody does. Because that’s not what faith is. Unless there was a good chance the world was going to end before sunrise. Then faith that the sun will rise tomorrow really kicks in. Because no one really knows, if it will, or won’t, but we just hope it doesn’t.
    Faith isn’t about knowledge. Faith comes about when there is no knowledge, but you have hope that whatever it is, will not be harmful or distressful.
    You can be the most logical, rational, knowledgable, person in the world. But if your wife, or child is in a distressing situation that is out of your control. All your rationale, logic, and knowledge, completely helpless to that situation. Then all your left with is faith. You hope they’ll be okay, meaning there has to be trust in something.
    That’s faith. You have no control over an outcome you don’t want to occur.


     
  20. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    So, a scientific fact explains facts. That's fine.


    What exactly is that? What thing?


    Uh yeah, so what? All the means is that truth is just another form of the word true, therefore you lookup the word 'true.'


    Yes Jan, that's what I've been saying all along. Please read that and learn something.

    Lol. So, you pulled stuff right out of the dictionary and failed to understand it. Man, are you ever dumb.

    I'm laughing because you don't even understand what that says. All it means is that you look up the word "true." How dumb can you be?

    Now, you're just conjuring up words no one said. Where did I say anything about well educated or having a monopoly? What you're saying here has nothing to do with definitions, you're just making it up as you go along.

    I already explained that one to you. You're smoking way too much pot.

    If atheists had religious faith, they would be theists. Duh.

    I didn't say it was a prerequisite. Once again, you're putting words out there no one said.


    Lol. Now, you're just rambling incoherently.

    Then, when you do have knowledge, facts and understand, faith is no longer needed.

    Yes Jan, there is trust in the facts surrounding the reason why my wife or child is in a distressing situation. Why would I need faith for that?

    If I don't want something to occur, I look at the facts as to why it's occurring and then use facts to stop it from occurring.

    Meanwhile, you use faith and get nowhere.
     
  21. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    That would depend on their religion.
    One can be religious and not be theist.
    Just as one can not be religious and be a theist.
     
  22. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    Because you would “hope” that nothing bad happens to them. Your facts, at that point is useless.
     
  23. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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