If I can imagine it, it's logically possible?

Discussion in 'General Philosophy' started by Speakpigeon, Mar 30, 2019.

  1. Speakpigeon Valued Senior Member

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    If I can imagine it, it's logically possible.
    Test: square circle? No, I can't.
    Test: The Earth is flat? Yes, I can.
    Test: God? Well, I sure can imagine something, but I wouldn't say it looks like God. So, me, I can't.
    OK, it's good to me, if I can imagine it, it's logically possible.
    EB
     
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  3. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    I can imagine having an ice cream cone.

    Er, "Test" I mean.
     
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  5. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    If anything, that's just a limitation of logic. As I have been known to say, logic is only as good as the material it works with - i.e. bad premises --> bad conclusions.
     
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  7. Speakpigeon Valued Senior Member

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    One can have very good logic and still conclude to falsehoods. False conclusions isn't necessarily bad logic.
    Still, could you explain precisely how using imagination as proof that something is a logical possibility would affect premises and therefore conclusions from them.
    EB
     
  8. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    Well, if the premises are imaginary....
     
  9. Sarkus Hippomonstrosesquippedalo phobe Valued Senior Member

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    Where does a perpetual motion fit in to this? Is the argument that there exists some world where the laws of thermodynamics are different (if any exist in that world) - and as such the machine is logically possible?
     
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  10. Speakpigeon Valued Senior Member

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    To say that God is a logical possibility is not at all to conclude that God exists.
    You don't infer anything merely from logical possibilities.
    Sometimes you can, but then it's good logic and true conclusion because the logical possibility in question just happens to be true.
    EB
     
  11. Speakpigeon Valued Senior Member

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    It would depend I think on the kind of perpetual motion you are talking about. I can imagine a very particular kind of perpetual motion but I can't imagine the usual notion of perpetual motion.
    That's not imagining. That's conceiving.
    Imagining is forming an image of the thing in your mind. I can't imagine a square circle because I'm unable to form the image of a square circle in my mind.
    Conceiving involves concepts, i.e. formal expressions. For example, the original notion of the infinite was conceptual, i.e. the infinite as some boundless quantity.
    EB
     
  12. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    in less than 3000 words ?
     
  13. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    perpetual motion is not impossible
    logical processing defines perpetual motion as a simple equation
    however, ... resistance in a form of energy entropy is a factor that as yet can not be catered for.

    what use is a perpetual motion engine that cant move anything else ?
    not much
    there is lies the lies of the debate around logic and physics.

    like the person asking you how you are because they have been conditioned to do so and are not wanting you to tell them how you are.
     
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  14. geordief Valued Senior Member

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    Is the universe a perpetual motion machine?(Is it square at the edges?

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    )
     
  15. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

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    Sez who?
     
  16. geordief Valued Senior Member

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    I
    Is it a solipsistic form of logic? Can that exist or is logic by definition** a form of communication?

    ** rather, "in essence"
     
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  17. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    HuGe question !
     
  18. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

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    Logic is a process: a formal process of reasoning. It has no content.
    A statement can be tested for logical consistency, but logic cannot be used to test it for factual accuracy.
    This is a statement that can be tested for logical consistency:
    - Does/can the logical process validate the possibility of things/ideas?
    No, that is not its function.
    - Is there any logical correlation between imagination and possibility?
    No.
    - Are all imaginations equal?
    No.
    - Does the imagination of the present agent determine the logical possibility of anything?
    No.

    The statement is nonsensical.
     
  19. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    No? What's the problem?

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    [Magnet at the top pulls the metal ball up the slope. When it gets to the hole, it drops through and returns to the bottom, where it is again attracted to the magnet at the top. etc.]
     
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  20. Speakpigeon Valued Senior Member

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    Sure, why not. One could explain General Relativity merely by saying that time and space are replaced by spacetime and that spacetime is curved. And then we can work from there. Human languages are terrific for that. One word can say more than a library.
    EB
     
  21. Speakpigeon Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, that's a subset of this I had in mind. Although not all kinds of universe may apply for it.
    EB
     
  22. Speakpigeon Valued Senior Member

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    Read the OP.
    Still, I can't imagine why you would say that rationally, so it's not logically possible that you are begin rational here.
    Which is permitted here.
    EB
     
  23. Speakpigeon Valued Senior Member

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    1,123
    I would rather say that logic is a capacity of the brain. And then , yes, this capacity is supported by neurological processes. That it is a capacity of the brain is evidenced by the fact that most people are capable of logical thinking.
    I think you are confusing logic and formal logic. Formal logic appears invariably as a calculus and as such it's a process. But logic is really something the brain does, and what the brain does is clearly distinct from our formal models precisely because they are formal models.
    Sure, and that's irrelevant here.
    ???
    You think logic doesn't determine what logical possibilities there are?!
    If not logic, what?!
    Yes there is.
    And?
    Please evidence your claim by providing examples of things you can imagine that are not logical possibilities.
    You've replied in some details and this is evidence the OP makes sense to you. Though possibly you misunderstood what it says.
    EB
     

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