If Trump gets back in?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Xelasnave.1947, May 11, 2020.

  1. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

    yeah i caught it. he is something else. i kind feel bad fucking around with him. its not his fault he is stuck in a bubble that impairs his critical thinking ability but whatever if he doesn't want to learn and grow that's on him. the complete lack of self awareness he exhibits would be almost cute if it weren't for the fact i have to deal with narcissistic assholes with the same problem in real life.
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  3. Vociferous Valued Senior Member

    I guess some people are oblivious to the fact that both police and white killings of blacks are both minuscule.
    Being oblivious to the fact that the media never promotes those discussions among black people would seem to be a racist blind spot.

    Oh, gotta circle the argument ad populum wagons because you can't refute my post. Too bad. Maybe quit projecting excuses about your own tiny bubble.
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  5. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

    i'll give you a word of advice child; if so many people from different view points think you making a fool of yourself the answer isn't that your some grand intellect superior to them all like you think, its that your just wrong. considering the 4 most likely people your lumping together are all ideologically distinct only goes to show how accurate my saying your in a bubble is. first off there was no argumentum ad populum, no is arguing that their right because their ideas are popular. secondly if your going to use latin use it, don't use latlish. seriously all you do is repeat the same tired right wing talking points and than whine when their easily refuted which no less than 4 people have. the fact that your arguments just drip with your thinnly veiled racism is only that much. thirdly your tendencies to personally attack the people who prove you wrong is telling. an inability to respect and understand arguments from different view points inhibits growth. ive gotten into arguments here with tiassia, iceaura, and cptbork but am still able to interact with them in a polite manner. that you are incapable of such is a serious intellectual handicap. so please keep telling us how much smarter you are than us all when your arguments are rightwing conspiracy theories, racist tropes, strawmen arguments, and personal attacks. i like how you thought you were smarter than the statisticians i quoted.
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  7. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

    so why do you think as a fucking white man you deserve a seat at the table for conversations among black people? they don't promote them because white people aren't part of that conversation. if you look at black media they are.
  8. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Do you really watch nothing other than FOX News? Or is it just your Dunning-Kruger kicking in again?

    Miami Herald opinion page: "Let’s talk about black-on-black violence" From the article: "Anyone with a scintilla of familiarity with African-American communities knows that we want the killers who plague our communities arrested and jailed no matter what their race or color. " In other words - not you.

    CNN: "Black on black crime: myth and reality in Facebook murder" From that story: "And yet,
    right-wing media and conservative politicians continue to perpetuate the myth that African-Americans only get upset when black suspects (often considered guilty thugs by these pundits) are shot by white police officers." Sounds like they're talking about you!

    CBS: "Black Lives Have To Matter To Black People" From that article: "I hear over and over again, ‘Black lives matter, black lives matter.’ And they do matter. But black lives also have to matter to black people."

    Quick! Check in with FOX News again and change your spin! Then claim that I am the ignorant one.
  9. Vociferous Valued Senior Member

    Cute false bravado, seeing as you're STILL not addressing any of the facts I gave you. Many different views, huh? Do tell. How do these people differ on Trump? Please, explain to us this supposed, and hopefully not insignificant, ideological distinction. Otherwise, this is just you using a well-worn adage to make excuses. People reinforcing their beliefs by agreeing with others, like all the triangulation in lieu of addressing my actual post, is just jumping on the bandwagon, which is argumentum ad populum (gotta make the petty pedant happy...the guy who hypocritically can't manage use sentence case or punctuation worth a damn). Cute pretending that you've refuted anything too. I guess you gotta tell yourself that, even while arduously avoiding replying to posts with inconvenient facts. Agreement is not refute, but you don't seem to understand the bandwagon fallacy (you know, where you're literally saying many people agreeing is a refute...and will likely come back with something witty, like "no, a refute is a refute", i.e. bare assertion). Just dismiss them as "right wing talking points", even though you display no understanding of even just a black man waving a Confederate flag. Should tell you who the actual bubble-dweller is, but I guess no one ever accused you of being self-aware. Speaking of your lack of self-awareness, that's why you project your own racism. Whereas your accusation of me is just flimflam, like implicit dog whistles and supposed talking points, yours is demonstrated in you inability to understand a black man waving a Confederate flag, without implying that he, black cops, etc., do so for any reason other than their lived experience as blacks. Ignorant, and likely racist, views like that do not merit respect. I also haven't seen you call tiassa, iceaura, or cptbork racist, while all have readily done so to me. Starting to see a difference yet, or maybe just how ideologically aligned you actually are with them? No, that darn lack of self-awareness still holding you back?

    LOL! Never said nor implied that I'm smarter than anyone here. So it's telling that that's the sense you get. Statistics? Oh, like the post were I refuted your nonsense and that you are STILL desperately avoiding?

    Never said I did, but nice straw man.

    You're right. "Never" was an exaggeration. But you can't seriously pretend that those aren't drowned out by all the stories about cops killing blacks. Nor that many of those articles only do so to minimize black on black murder as a priority.
    Do black people kill one another? Sure they do. Ninety percent of black murder victims are killed by black assailants.

    But guess what? White people kill one another, too. Eighty-three percent of white victims are killed by white assailants. See, the vast majority of violent crime is committed within — not between — racial groups. Crime is a matter of proximity and opportunity. People victimize their own rather than drive across town to victimize somebody else.

    So another term for “black on black” crime is, crime.
    So black on black crime isn't a problem worthy of the same level of coverage, because it's "just crime". A whataboutism that also obscures the actual numbers behind percentages of each population.
    So while black are only about 12-13% of the population, they are murdered in comparable numbers to whites. That's belies that whataboutism, and betrays the callous ignorance or intent of that argument. Same thing in your second article:
    Finally, the very notion that one race committing crimes against others of that same race is a phenomenon unique to the African-American community is, itself, a myth. While it is true that the overwhelming number of black people who are murdered in the United States are killed by other black people, it's also true, according to the FBI's 2014 Uniform Crime Reports, that about 82% of white American homicide victims were killed by other white people.
    Where are the protests of black on black murder? It's definitely a much bigger problem than "just crime" and whites killing whites. Where's the wall to wall coverage of the horrendous number of murders that regularly occur in cities like Baltimore or Chicago? Where is the chanting crowd and the white allies on this issue? Maybe race baiting is just better for ratings and keeping Democrats elected.

  10. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    Black on black murder is prosecuted by the courts, the perps are arrested by the police, etc - no need for protests.
    Clearly they are not being protected by the police and other societal institutions, as white people are.
    But we knew that, remember?
    Most people think murder committed with impunity by the police is worthy of more coverage than ordinary crime committed by criminals who are arrested and prosecuted.
  11. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Thank you for acknowledging that.
    Those get a lot more coverage, because the state killing black people is a much bigger deal than random criminals (of any color) killing blacks.
    Correct. Because when the state kills someone, it's a bigger deal than if another criminal kills someone.
    From the post you replied to: "And yet, right-wing media and conservative politicians continue to perpetuate the myth that African-Americans only get upset when black suspects (often considered guilty thugs by these pundits) are shot by white police officers."

    Of course it's a problem. Of course people care about it. But it's pointless to protest to the government about criminals killing blacks. It is NOT pointless to protest to the government about government-hired law enforcement agents killing blacks.

    I am sure you understand this. Let's say you have two problems - your neighbor throwing trash over your fence into your yard, and the government passing laws that damage your business. You might protest the government's actions. You might even join a march, or write letters to the editor, or stand outside the governor's office with a sign. And you might talk to your neighbor about his throwing trash over the fence - or even your HOA.

    If your neighbor said "as soon as you protest trash thrown over your fence as much as you protest that government law I MIGHT take you seriously!" would that prove you were a hypocrite?
  12. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

    the money will decide
    and it looks like the 2nd wave is going to have the American economy queuing at the soup kitchens with no soup left

    they have spent all their time & money trying to blame governors instead of fighting the virus & trying to re start the economy

    but they dont care because they are rich enough to live above it all

    so whats the real question ?

    will they wheel him up to the front again & have a symbol of the failed economy sitting at their party headquarters ?

    good question
    they are probably trying to find an answer for that at the moment
    "because slave war" wont turn the economy around
    alternate conspiracy
    50,000 faked dead new yorkers conspiracy to over throw the 2nd amendment
    probably wont gell so well.

    do conspiracy theorists think the rich elite care about them & their lifes and family's and their local economys & businesses ?
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2020
  13. Vociferous Valued Senior Member

    So are white on black and unjustified police shootings. Lionizing criminals to pretend justified shooting weren't, or ignoring every officer conviction is dishonest.

    So more police in a neighborhood provides less protection than a lesser patrolled neighborhood? What utter, irrational garbage.
    Police don't prevent crime. They respond to crime, the legal system punishes crime, and we hope that works as a deterrent. Get that? They respond, usually when called by the victims.

    Complete myth. Criminally unjustified shootings lead to convictions.

    Bad individuals are not the state, and the state doesn't condone them.
    The 13% of blacks killing each other at numbers comparable to whites is a bigger deal by orders of magnitude.

    What a callous dismissal of human lives.

    It's complete garbage to attack the entire system, wanting to defund whole police forces, over an extremely small number of bad actors, who face justice for their actions. That's rabble-rousing race baiting and a distraction. If black on black violence is so well-addressed by the black community, why do many blacks not think it is?

    Bad analogy, as black on black violence is objectively worse, simply in number of lives lost. So your analogy would have to be your neighbor literally trying to kill you, to be at all apt. And such protests pretend that these officers do not get convicted and that municipalities don't pay settlements. The victims of "just criminals" often get neither, as people can be so terrorized that they don't help the police and there's no one to sue for damages. There seems to be way more redress of police misconduct, without any protests at all.
  14. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

    Beautifully, accurately and admirably said. Well done.
  15. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

    thank you
  16. Vociferous Valued Senior Member

    I hope that makes you feel better about not having the nerve to reply.
  17. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

    Ahhh, time for the Pot, Kettle Black cartoon again!!!

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    Creatioinism, ID, political redneckery are all so tied up with hypocrisy.
    No probs...One need not be an Einstein to be able to see through this character.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

  18. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

    lol. sorry pumpkin but my life doesn't revolve around dealing with your racist bs. its not lack of nerve but i don't see the point in debating someone as ignorant and lacking of self awareness as you. you lack the capacity to ever leave your right wing bubble, so it is not fair to engage you in a battle of wits when you have so clearly shown up unarmed.
    paddoboy likes this.
  19. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    Nobody does that.

    The issue at hand is the large number of bad actors, including entire police forces, who do not face justice for their decades - generations - of actions.
  20. parmalee peripatetic artisan Valued Senior Member

    It's almost as though you made a concerted effort to get as many details wrong here as you possibly could.
  21. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    So is the tip of an iceberg.

    They are more significant than Islamic terrorist killings of blacks - far more common, far more influential, and far more effective as terrorist threats.

    How about having the black communities respond to police terrorism as the white communities respond to Islamic terrorism?
  22. Vociferous Valued Senior Member

    I get that you have to insulate yourself from inconvenient facts by just labeling it "racist bs". It's like making a cross with your fingers to ward off evil. It doesn't do a damn thing, but makes you feel safe. And the other superstitious thank you for that nothing gesture. You don't see a point in actually confronting facts that prove your nonsense wrong. That's indicative of your bubble, not mine. I'm happy to confront any facts you give me, because I'm not afraid of reality.

    It's almost as if you didn't actual say anything at all about any of the details...except the bare assertion that they're wrong.
  23. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    Police violence against black people is not proportionately arrested and prosecuted.
    That's what is causing all the riots and stuff, remember?
    For black people, yes. That is the problem. That's why there are all these riots and stuff.

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