Immigration Crisis or an Economic Opportunity?

Discussion in 'World Events' started by Michael, Oct 6, 2015.

  1. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    "the country's capital"
    lol
    Our county uses debt-based fiat currency units, not capital. It can print as many of these as it likes. And when the richest Citizens and their buddies get into trouble, it does - to the tune of unknown trillions in debt obligations.

    I do agree, it's too bad GiverMint has the potential to wage Never Ending Phony Wars. Thanks to our Progressive Central Bank, our Government regulated and government controlled and government created for and by, Financial system loves killing people. It's good at it.

    Once GiverMint established a Central Bank, endless phoney Wars were baked in the cake.
     
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  3. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    AND?

    The fiat currency system creates bubbles, boom and bust cycles, it's called Progressive Central Banking. One time it was the Roaring 20s, which led to the Great Depression and WWII; this time it is in people - demographics. No one knows where it will lead. The Great Recession? The Greater Depression? WWIII? My guess is to the total annihilation of German and Swedish culture. Oh, I mean "New" Sweden.

    LOL

    Would this have happened without a fiat currency system? No one can know. What we do know is the expected benefits that Citizens were promised (by politicians, 30 years ago), wouldn't have been promised - because without a Central Bank, no politician would have been able to concoct these lies -- instead, we'd have an entirely different free-market financial system. Government's role in our lives would be extremely limited. Mostly relegated to a bit of legal paperwork within a limited context.

    But you don't like free people do you? Freedom is scary, isn't it? Plus there are these big scary rich peoples. GASP And we all know Citizens are too stupid and weak to do anything about them rich people. Which is why we need unlimited GiverMint. You know, to bail them rich people out.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2016
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  5. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Still muddled about the difference between "currency" and "capital" - how many years now?
    Still can't quite face the 1880s and WWI, we see.

    Unregulated banking is not "progressive". It's what the industrial revolution started with, yielding results still bowdlerized in the history books given to children, and the recent examples of former Soviet- allied countries. With well-regulated ("progressive") banking industrial economies seldom bubble and bust (that's almost the definition of well-regulated) - as has been demonstrated by several economies, including the US from 1935 until around 1985.
     
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  7. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    We didn't have a progressive labor tax and a central bank that could issue debt obligations backed by State coercion in the 1880s. We also didn't have the internet.

    Anyway, what do have is empiricism. Let's see how B.Sanders Scandinavian Progressive Utopia's look as their demographics begin to shift. Both in age, culture and genetic composition.

    In the meantime, you're in luck, because Progressive Authoritarianism is all the rage. Let's see if they don't start WWIII.
     
  8. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    As for the 'county's capital'. It's humorous to me on a number of levels. The least of which being we don't use sound money, we use fiat currency. Then there's our role We play as The Taxed Citizen / Tax Chattel. For example, when the Chinese tax farmers buy 10 year T-bonds, what exactly are they buying? I mean, they have their own fiat currency. They don't need paper money, they can make as much as the wish.

    Oh, and then there's the splash of abstract collectivism you Statists love so much. Which is why you're all Authoritarians. It's encoded in your abstract gibberish / thinking. For the good of society. Our Country's Capital. Hope and Change. What a laugh

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    Sorry, but no, there is no Our. That's not what the USA was founded upon. Quite the opposite actually. Unlike you collectivists, the Framers' were keen on private property rights.

    And no, initiating violence against morally innocent humans (productive ones at that) isn't good for society. It also isn't moral.

    In the meantime, fulfill your role as Tax Chattel. Make your farmers their milk and meat. Make sure you repay the Chinese Farmers as well. They own a piece of you too. You know, because we use the roads

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    lol
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2016
  9. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    And yet we had bubbles and busts, and World War. All kinds of bad stuff. Plenty of State coercion. But no labor tax at all - the US has never to my knowledge taxed labor. Are you getting confused about the difference between labor and wage income again?
    It's been years now you have been posting this basic confusion of currency, money, and capital. Nothing based on such a fundamental muddle will ever make sense.
    I never wrote any of those terms - not "the good of society", not "hope and change", not "our country's capital". You're the only source of that bs on this forum.
     
  10. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    Small bubbles - all corrected relatively quickly. As for WWI, that was caused by European States. Yes, our Nation State has the right to declare war and force It's Citizens to fight in these wars.

    Do you think World Wars are possible without Nation States and Central Banks to declare them and steal for them?

    LOL

    Okay, back semantics.

    Give me an example of a labor tax. You know, so that when you see it, you know it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2016
  11. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    30,994
    No. Serious and recurrent financial crises, that caused a great deal of misery and threatened the continued existence of the country. The largest war ever seen on the planet until then - it was called the Great War, the War To End All Wars - WWII is often treated as an extension of it, rather than a separate event.
    They aren't possible without large governments and industrial economies of some kind - so far, that means nation states and central banks. One could imagine otherwise.
    Let's say your town requires you to pay a tax of a dollar per hour for pushing your lawn mower or shoveling your sidewalk or running the cash register at the local Quik-Stop. You do some labor, you pay a tax on it. You buy a lawn-rhoomba, push a button, you pay no labor tax because you did no labor. This is confusing?
     
  12. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    LOL

    So your example of paying a tax on labor is when you rake your lawn, you pay a Government fiat currency unit / US dollar. You wipe your arse, you are forced to pay a dollar to "The People's" government. When you do your dishes, you pay a dollar. When you put on your clothing, you pay a dollar. When you feed yourself, you pay a dollar.

    LOL

    THAT is your serious example of the Government taxing labor. Wiping your arse. Pfffff.... Hahahahaha

    You're a great example of why Europe will eventually collapse. It's pretty much impossible to summarize the idiocracy in words. Other than to define it as Progressive. Which is why we need empiricism. We need to watch as the Progressive Socialists of Europe destroy Europe. Just as they did to Venezuela. Even then, as society is totally collapsing, you'll still deny reality. Right up until you're eaten by a hungry hoard. Which actually happens to small children in that other Worker's Paradise: North Korea. They're made into stew and eaten. Of course in North Korea they've gone that small extra step and codified your religious belief in the State / Authoritarian Statism / Socialism (in this case, Progressive) as an actual State Religion.

    Big God, little state
    little god, Big State

    Anyway, the functional illiterate puked up a community social worker for 8 years of "Change You Can Believe In". Particularly medical premiums, but also the functional illiteracy rate ticked up another percent. Thank you GiverMint Schools, like an economist's Virtuous Cycle. Let's see if semi-literate Germans can do better.

    LOL



    Meanwhile in Germany.



    Apparently the Mayor's wife broke down crying listening to the Commoners - they are such precious things, the Aristocracy. Geee, who knows? If we're lucky we'll get to live in a Progressive Socialist Paradise like Germany.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2016
  13. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    30,994
    No, not my "serious" example. There aren't any. It's not a serious idea. As you noticed, it's stupid. And it's yours. Nobody on this forum is talking about taxing labor except you.

    In reality, progressive socialism did not destroy Venezuela. Centralized micromanagement of a socialized economy (and climate change) did the last bit of damage to what had been ruined over two centuries by authoritarian backed corporate capitalism.

    In another reality, the US would be better off adopting several ideas that have led to rapidly increased prosperity in Europe.
     
  14. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    So you cannot come up with a single example of 'taxing labor'? Nothing at all? You simply cannot know it when you see it.

    Therefor I can present you, with what it is, and you have no argument.
    We will agree.
    What I present as 'taxing labor' will be: 'taxing labor'. By definition.

    You'll have no counter example. As a matter of fact, as far as you know, you know nothing on the topic at all!

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    See? We're getting there.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2016
  15. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    Europe? Why not Japan? How about China? Except we are not Europe, Japan or China. What works in a small Swiss town comprised of average to high IQ Swiss, doesn't work in Flint MI. Just as our Democratic Institutions, do not work in Iraq.

    And get this (because this is the real ball-kicker) it'll be GERMANY who will be adopting OUR way of doing things. Not the other way around. And they'll adopt our way of doing things, for the exact same reasons we developed the way we do things. It won't be exactly the same though. As an example, notice that some "Public" swimming pools, are not "Private" swimming pools. The Swedish don't seem to have any problem with using money, in order to keep the poor from accessing public tax-payer funded resources, when they want to. How magnanimous of the Swedish.

    LOL

    There's no conspiracy out there.
    It's an inevitability.
    Baked in the Progressive Socialist's Authoritarian Cake.
    They will become us.

    Oh, and don't worry, soon it's going to be rapidly decreasing prosperity for Europe.

    But, all in due time, let empiricism light the way forward

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    .... and we'll try not to get eaten along the way

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    Last edited: Oct 4, 2016
  16. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    30,994
    I came up four or five, you came up with a couple, what's the problem? They're stupid? Of course they're stupid.

    Probably no government taxes labor any more - certainly no representative government will tax the labor of their own citizenry. They might put a head tariff on imported labor, or outside employment of slaves not paid wages, but levying a tax on a citizen for an amount of work performed? - not likely.

    It's this continual problem you guys have with the English language - in this case, you probably started reading or talking about taxing "labor" instead of taxing wage income as a standard shorthand making some macroeconomic discussion less wordy (are we taxing capital or labor, say), wages became labor itself, wage income became all income in your smoke-filled ascending blimp of analysis, income received became labor provided, and pretty soon you are talking about the morality of levying taxes on higher incomes in general as if they were levied on the work performed.

    The problem you guys have with the English language is that it will not change for you, so that all the words associated with the good stuff become associated with the bad stuff and vice versa, thereby justifying your recommendations and causing your arguments to make sense. It won't work: your recommendations suck, the accurate vocabulary for them makes that obvious even to you, and an inaccurate vocabulary just makes muddles for bad people to exploit.

    And working hard to change the meanings of the words -so that the historical plantation slavery in the Americas or the rented out labor force of the German KZ to private factories becomes "socialism" instead of "capitalism", say - can only make them meaningless, not cooperative. As the ad man put it: "The name acquires the attributes of the thing, not vice versa".
    It would be interesting to see if what works everywhere it's been tried, and made sense to everyone who tried it, will work in one more place. It's called "empiricism", by some people.

    One thing's for sure - what has been done in Flint under current Michigan governance has not worked. So the idea that it should not be done any more, and something else done instead - preferably something that has worked elsewhere - is worth considering, no?
    I agree that seeing Germany reduced to the US level in some things, such as race relations or health care, would mean bad things had happened in Germany. Likewise with almost any First World country - health care and race relations in the US are in pretty bad shape (not by coincidence).
     
  17. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    Via the Gatestone Institute:
    Germany's Migrant Rape Crisis Spirals out of Control
    Suppression of data about migrant rapes is "Germany-wide phenomenon."
    • Germany's migrant rape crisis has now spread to cities and towns in all 16 of Germany's federal states. Germany now finds itself in a vicious circle: most of the perpetrators are never found, and the few who are frequently receive lenient sentences. Only one in 10 rapes in Germany is reported and just 8% of rape trials result in convictions, according to Minister of Justice Heiko Maas.
    • Up to 90% of the sex crimes committed in Germany in 2014 do not appear in the official statistics, according to André Schulz, the head of the Association of Criminal Police.
    • "There are strict instructions from the top not to report offenses committed by refugees. It is extraordinary that certain offenders are deliberately NOT being reported about and the information is being classified as confidential." -- High-ranking police official in Frankfurt, quoted in Bild.
    --o--
    At the bottom of their article they list the sexual assaults in July. Recall, 90% of sex crimes are not reported offenses (according to their article). It made me think, perhaps Germans should adopt the burka? Or at least the niqab? You know, for the good of New Germany and New German society. It's time to start working together. This isn't a one-way street. The immigrants and the Ethnic Germans have to work with one another. Perhaps Germans adopt a new legal dress code, and perhaps the economic immigrants live with a higher age of consent and some limitations in terms as to whom one can be married with (for example, cultural norms like marrying first cousins, might have to go).

    In the meantime, think of all the Jerbs being created to deal with sex offenders. Wow, with all that work to do, cleaning up and running rape kits, the unemployment rate is probably going to plummet! Think of the prosperity! LOL

    Old Germany is dead.
    Long live New Germany

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  18. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    Via Brietbart: Sex Crimes Soar as Oktoberfest Attendance Plummets.

    Oktoberfest, the top beer festival in the world held in Munich, had its lowest attendance in 15 years. According to Breitbart, the festival had 5.6 million visitors this year, down 300,000 since last year, but the number of sexual assaults went up. In total, sex crimes increased from 21 to 31. The group Safer Wiesn for Girls and Woman said 215 women came to security checkpoints for help this year compared to 197 last year.

    --o--
    Oh well, looks like a few hundred thousand New Germans in New Germany, are starting to figure it out. Reminds me of a couple friend who were assaulted, and then battered, outside of Comic-Con. They walked on the wrong side of the street. They should have worried less about how their crossing over looked, and fricken crossed over. Having spent time in Flint as a kid, I sort of have a built in Spidey sense for these things. Anyway, now that you can pretty much be murdered in any of our cities, small and large - not to mentioned raped, assaulted, beaten. Well, it's all part and parcel of living the American Dream.

    All this and more, coming your way New Germany

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  19. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Uh, dude
    You don't even know what the problem there is , do you.
    People still link to that site, on a science forum - - wow.

    How badly do you have to be humiliated in public before you learn not to let those guys set you up?
    Let's imitate the good ideas in Germany, for America, while Germany is imitating the bad ones we had. Maybe we can get the benefits Germany has enjoyed for generations now, even catch up in the prosperity and economic health areas.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2016
  20. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    Let me give you an idea. In Japan, 0% of their high school graduate are functional illiterate. They read and write fluently in two kana (hiragana and katakana) each with around 50 "letters" (more when you add in some odd combinations) in addition to being required a minimum of 2600 Chinese characters (more like 4500 to read anything worthwhile) and also can easily read our Latin alphabet.

    We have 1 alphabet with 26 letters. Sure, there are short and long versions of the letters. One in every five of our Government school "Certified" with a Government diploma graduates as a functional illiterate - lacking both the ability to competently read, and write (and is also innumerate by the by). In the Japanese system, our Grade 12 Government School graduates (some of whom go on to a Government University, believe it or not - soon to be 'free' two more magical years) read at a level comparable to Japanese Grade 4. A 10 year old in Japan could read English better.

    You know, to put things into perspective here. And, it's getting worse, not better - worse. And will continue to get worse. Soon, reading and writing above Grade level 6 will be a rare skill for an American, oh wait, I forgot, it already is.


    In Japan, there are no slums.
    They simply do not exist.
    At all.
    Anywhere.
    In ANY city.

    Not even in their Welfare apartments. Geeee, I wonder why ours of ghettos? I mean, we're doing what they're doing - hell, we give MORE in America then what the Japanese GiverMint offers to Japanese. See, Japanese understand giving more free-shit, isn't a good idea. Better to suffer with a lot less than encourage a certain slothful demographic. Therefor in 'rich' Japan, many people eek out a living in 50 dollars a week or less.

    Yes, I know, you would like to have high quality affordable healthcare. No shit Sherlock. Everyone would. That's ONLY going to be possible via a free market in medicine - as in, a totally free market. Which is to say, a free society. Of course, this no longer exists in the "Land of the Free", because everything from to whom you can marry to what job you can perform requires a Government 'servant' to sell you magic piece of paper - all markets are under the control of some form of regulatory capture with the exception of the internet (but it will be, eventually, you know, either for our safety or to tax and pay for free-shit), turning nearly everyone employed in a profession into a rent-seeker.

    You want single-payer medicine? Okay, then you want to die in a public hospital. Because, I promise to you, our single payer isn't going to be like in Japan, it isn't going to be like in Germany - it isn't even going to rise to the level of Australia (which is an admitted very very low bar). No, our Public Hospitals will be the equivalent of, and as safe as, our Government run Welfare Ghettos - and as useless as a Government High School degree in the hands of a functional illiterate. It will kill you. But, what do you care? You want free shit.

    Now, I understand you will never come to terms with this. Because you live in magic land. The ONLY, and I mean ONLY, way you collectivists come to terms with reality, is when you're being eaten - because the local zoo ran out of animals to eat.

    That's the only way.

    Which is why it doesn't matter who we elect.

    In the meantime, let's watch the Trump vs WarHarpy Show. It's quite interesting, particularly these WikiLeaks. Wow, I mean, these are really quite hilarious. I love the part where the DNC talks about dumbing down an already moronic voting public. Yes, GiverMint Schools, getting one thing right

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    Note: Soon Germany will be like us, at this time, they'll be cutting social benefits - you can blame the Ghost of Reagan if it makes you feel better

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    Last edited: Oct 13, 2016
  21. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    As an aside:

    Ralph Nader and leading linguist Noam Chomsky engaged in a much anticipated discussion in early October on Ralph Nader Radio Hour. The two raised questions about changing the media narrative in a totalitatian-like state, and how Chomsky got dismissed from the mainstream altogether.
    “How often have you been on the Op-Ed pages of the New York Times,” Nader asked Chomsky.
    For Chomsky, the last time was over a decade ago.
    “[I was asked] to write about the Israeli separation wall, actually an annexation wall that runs through the West Bank and breaking apart the Palestinian communities… condemned as illegal by the World Court,” Chomsky told Nader.
    Chomsky would later pen a similar piece for CNN on the 2013 Israeli-Palestinian peace talks. But Chomsky has never been interviewed on the network; Nor has he appeared on NBC, ABC or CBS.
    “How about NPR and PBS, partially taxpayer-supported.. more free-thinking and more tolerant [outlets]?” Nader wanted to know.
    “I’ve been on ‘Charlie Rose’ two or three times,” Chomsky told Nader, adding that he had a curious story about a particularly Boston outlet for NPR based in Boston University.
    “They used to have a program in their prime time news programs all things considered some years ago at 5:25… maybe once a week or so, a five-minute discussion with someone who had written a new book and there’s a lot of pressure,” Chomsky began.

    NPR was going to allow Chomsky to present his book, “Necessary Illusions: Thought Control in Democratic Societies” (1989).
    “I got a call from the publisher telling me when I should tune [in at 5pm] and I never listened [before], so I tuned in [and] there was five minutes of music… I started getting phone calls from around the country asking ‘What happened to the piece?'” Chomsky remembered.
    He didn’t know.
    “I then got a call from the station manager in Washington who told me that she’d been getting calls and she didn’t understand it because it was listed… she called back saying kind of embarrassed … that some bigwig in the system had heard the announcement at five o’clock and had ordered it cancelled,” Chomsky explained.

    --o--
    Let me see.... WarHarpy, supported the bombing of Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya and now Syria - probably culminating in the deaths of millions of innocent women and children (incidentally, WikiLeaks has Clinton saying she supports bombing civilians in Syria to take out some missile defenses). You can't make this shit up.

    Oh, and The Progressive? He said mean stuff. And talked about grabbing some pussy.
    LOL


    Oh what, Oh what, are the functionally illiterate going to do??? WarHarpy for the WIN!
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2016
  22. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

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    There are homeless villages in parks and under bridges in all major Japanese cities.
     
  23. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    Actually, these people have built their own homes. They specifically choose to live in these makeshift homes (which, many are very similar to the semi-legal small homes found in and around San Francisco). Regardless, they're clean and very safe. There are no slums in Japan. At all. None. Whereas our cities are littered with slums. Americans are murdered every single day of the week in or around these slums. This just simply doesn't exist in Japan at all.

    But yes, there are people who, for whatever reason, choose to live homeless. The type of people who don't abuse drugs amd alcohol and live in a makeshift house or as a transient is different from generational welfare ghettos (whom are not homeless, but instead have turned public housing into slums). These slums do not exist in Japan. But yes, homeless people do exist. Unless you're going to lock them away into a home, they will always exist.

    We're not Japan, we're not Germany. What works and is cost effective in Japan and Germany, doesn't turn out quite the same here.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2016

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