impeachment of Trump as a private citizen

Discussion in 'Politics' started by sculptor, Jan 27, 2021.

  1. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    Why did you post that?
     
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  3. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Would you advocate releasing murderers who probably wouldn't be convicted by a jury?
     
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  5. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Because the Constitution calls out a certain procedure for impeachment. A Senate trial is the Constitutional next step. The Constitution does not provide a mechanism for "abandoning" an impeachment.
     
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  7. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    FYI
    The Constitution does not by its express terms direct the Senate to try an impeachment. In fact, it confers on the Senate "the sole power to try,” which is a conferral of exclusive constitutional authority and not a procedural command. The Constitution couches the power to impeach in the same terms: it is the House’s “sole power.” The House may choose to impeach or not, and one can imagine an argument that the Senate is just as free, in the exercise of its own “sole power,” to decline to try any impeachment that the House elects to vote.
     
  8. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 71 years old Valued Senior Member

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    Sort of does happen if it is considered by the prosecutors not enough evidence available

    To me, and if memory serves me right, the courts some time ago has ruled politicians are allowed to use speech containing wide hyperbole

    Guessing that will be one Trump tactic used

    Interesting since it appears if trial goes ahead currently seems like will not get 17 Republicans needed to convict

    Unless extremely damaging evidence comes out before trial looking like an acquittal is likely

    Think the dice is being thrown for a conviction to ensure he can't run again

    I would have thought trying him with a civil crime, which has the same effect (is there one?) would be more likely to be successful

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    Last edited: Jan 28, 2021
  9. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    Watts v. United States ?
     
  10. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Nope.

    The Constitution confers on the House the sole power to impeach: "The House of Representatives shall chuse their Speaker and other Officers and shall have the sole Power of Impeachment." They are in charge of impeachment.
    The Senate TRIES the impeachment (i.e. holds the trial.) "The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments."

    So the only entity in the United States that has power to impeach is the US House. They choose who to impeach and who not to impeach. The Senate does NOT have the right to cancel that impeachment because they don't want to do their job. Only the House can do that.

    (Needless to say, the republicans in the Senate have shown zero respect for the Constitution lately, so I'd expect them to do everything they can to shirk their duty.)
     
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  11. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Of course. But if there is enough evidence to indict, but MIGHT not be enough evidence to convict, should they just be released, because it's just going to be a show trial that will anger the murder's friends and family?
     
  12. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    The above is moot
    the senate, it seems will proceed to trial

    This should prove entertaining
     
  13. mathman Valued Senior Member

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    The application seems to be up to a jury to decide. His speech led to a riot. Jury needs to decide if free speech applies.
     
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  14. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, it will. It will be fun seeing the republicans weasel as they try to make statements ridiculous enough that they will not cause Trump supporters to boot them in the next primary, but also statements sane enough that normal people will still vote for them.
     
  15. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    One thing
    When I was on jury duty
    impartiality was required
    and we had to agree 100% to convict or acquit

    That ain't gonna happen with the senators(party politicians) as jurors.

    Perhaps similar to the hatfields and mccoys with a hatfield tried by a jury made up of McCoys?

    How many will stray from party lines?
     
  16. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Given that some GOP senators have indicated they are willing to convict - there are at least a few with spines, who are willing to put their jobs over their party's politics. Will there be enough? Hard to say.
     
  17. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 71 years old Valued Senior Member

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    No idea sorry. At the time I thought - Well if they didn't have wide hyperbole it would be so dull

    My first exposure to politics I was still at Grammar School in London. I'd got there on a scholarship

    Was at a mates place both about 14 - 15 and he had said we were going out for a good evening

    Turned out to be a political rally. We had seats way up 3rd level. Guessing party was Liberal. Lots of hype both on stage and audience. Dull as dish water

    17 needed , doubtful

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  18. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    Who?
     
  19. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Unknown. Everyone is avoiding the issue like the plague. From one Senate aide: "I think the timing creates a problem … if we voted on impeachment last Wednesday night, we could have gotten 80 votes.”

    We do know that Susan Collins, Lisa Murkowski, Mitt Romney, Ben Sasse and Patrick J. Toomey all want to move forward with the case.
     
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  20. candy Registered Senior Member

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    DA's do release murders they do not think they can get convicted.
    They could have opted for censure.
     
  21. candy Registered Senior Member

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    Prudence.
    The group that started breaking into the Capitol came prepared which suggests that they had planned their attack before they got to DC.
     
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  22. geordief Valued Senior Member

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    So you feel that Trump should not have been impeached for fear of provoking those groups?

    And you do not think that Trump incited them directly enough to be held accountable for their actions?

    And you think that the Democrats are mostly trying to get even with Trump rather than acting because this was an act that merited impeachment?(and which imo, if not done would set a terrible precedent for future politicians to exploit)
     
  23. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    No, they don't. If they have enough evidence for a trial they indict them and let a jury decide. Imagine if a defense attorney found out his client had been indicted and said "Nope! Witch hunt! We refuse to have the trial" and that meant the murderer walked. Would you want that?
    They could have. And if he had, say, lied about getting a blowjob that would make sense. If he incites a riot that kills a cop and half a dozen other people? Nope. That's a crime that anyone else in the country would go to jail for.
    Yep. At his urging. Several criminals who have been arrested for vandalism, theft, assault and murder said they came to DC at Trump's request, and stormed the capitol at Trump's request.

    All the more reason for the impeachment. If you let such brutal, violent attacks go unpunished, then they are not crimes - they are rehearsals.
     

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