impeachment of Trump as a private citizen

Discussion in 'Politics' started by sculptor, Jan 27, 2021.

  1. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Well, that was at least the publicly stated reason. It would be rare for five different lawyers to choose that path simultaneously IMO. (He really couldn't find a single lawyer to agree with him on the approach to his defense?)

    A more likely reason may come from the American Bar Association. Near the top of the list of reasons to terminate a relationship with a client is:

    "A lawyer ordinarily must decline or withdraw from representation if the client demands that the lawyer engage in conduct that is illegal or violates the Rules of Professional Conduct or other law."
     
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  3. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    Career suicide perhaps?
     
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  5. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    non compos mentis
     
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  7. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    The best strategy for Trump is to argue the massive election fraud.

    That way, when the Republicans in the Senate vote not to impeach him, it will lend further legitimacy to the Big Lie, since they will effectively be endorsing it.

    Since the Republicans appear to be planning to find Trump not guilty regardless of what defence he runs in the trial, he might as well use the one that will best advance his future prospects of regaining the Presidency.

    His lawyers may be disbarred or censured by the legal profession for telling lies in the trial. That may well be the reason Trump's first set of lawyers quit. The next lot might be willing to sacrifice their legal careers for Trump.
     
  8. geordief Valued Senior Member

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    Let's hope they have factored in this expected line of defence into their probable intention to acquit.

    If Trump doesn't go along maybe some of them will peel off.

    If they vote to acquit on the basis that the election was fraudulent then ,well what then?

    I suppose Trump may try to have his defence run on both ideas and ram through the fraudulent election posturing along with the comparitively plausible (actually specious) unconstitutionality defence.

    Can they somehow even connect the two so that (a) he still gets his acquittal and (b) his base swallows the "fraudulent" lie?
     
  9. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    More recent news reports now suggest that the main lines of defence Trump will run are (1) trying him after his term has ended is unconstitutional; and (2) his actions and words did not actually amount to incitement to his followers to storm the Capitol, or to commit acts of violence etc.

    There are many possible reasons why his lawyers won't be pushing the election fraud lie. Maybe they aren't willing to risk their own careers to do that. But maybe there's also been some back-channel negotiation between Republican senators and the Trump team about the kinds of arguments the Senators will be able to tolerate and still find Trump not guilty. If Republicans want to keep the door open for a 2024 Trump run for the Presidency, they will need to acquit him; that could be politically untenable if he ran the "big fraud" as a defence.

    On the other hand, a lot of Republican senators are probably under pressure to acquit Trump due to repercussions from their own constituents if they don't. Some Republican senators have apparently already received death threats to themselves and their families if they don't toe the Trump line, so self-interest might override such issues as justice, for them. Even without the physical threats, many Republican senators are beholden to the Trump base who elected them. A vote to convict Trump now might well mean they are voted out in 2 or 4, or 6 years' time. Trump loyalists will almost certainly blacklist any Republican who votes for conviction.

    Legally speaking, item (1), above is an untenable argument. Historical precedent regarding previous impeachments, and prior court decisions related to those, mean that the argument that you can't impeach a President once he is out of office has no chance of succeeding. Having said that, Senators voting to acquit Trump aren't obliged to follow legal precedents or to give reasons for their votes, so the legal niceties might have no impact in any case.

    Most likely, though, I think, is that the rationale Republican Senators will decide to use to acquit Trump is that he never gave explicit instructions to his supporters to invade the Capitol or to commit any acts of violence. They will most likely argue that drawing such a conclusion from his remarks relies on interpreting them in a particular way, and they don't agree with that interpretation. This would be an excuse, of sorts, and it will in all likelihood satisfy the Republican base while maintaining the a weak illusion of objectivity.

    One thing I'm not entirely clear about is whether Trump's entire course of conduct - e.g. over the past year, or generally throughout his term in office - will be considered in the trial, or whether it will be restricted largely to his behaviour on 6 January and in the immediate lead-up to that. My impression - which could be wrong - is that the articles of impeachment seem to focus on 6 January, which might well be too narrow and which might allow just enough wriggle room for Republican Senators to maintain plausiable deniability in voting to acquit.
     
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  10. river

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    trump has lawyers ? Any at all ?

    Surprise to me . From What I know trump has no legal team .
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2021
  11. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    He got some new ones. Perhaps he found a few ambulance chasers who were smart enough to ask for cash up front.
     
    river likes this.
  12. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Trump's new lawyers are David Schoen and Bruce Castor.

    Schoen represented Roger Stone, who was convicted in November 2019 of obstructing a congressional investigation into whether the Trump campaign colluded with Russia to win the 2016 election, and then had his prison sentence commuted by Trump. He also met with the sex offender Jeffrey Epstein when the financier was preparing for trial in New York on charges relating to sexual exploitation, shortly before Epstein died in jail in 2019.

    Castor is a former acting attorney general of Pennsylvania and a Republican who has been slammed by advocates for victims of sexual crimes because of his stance against reforms involving help for past victims of Catholic priests and in the case of university football coach and predator Jerry Sandusky. Castor gained notoriety for declining to prosecute Bill Cosby more than a decade before the entertainer was eventually convicted in 2018, and also sued Cosby’s victim, Andrea Constand, in a case that was dismissed, and then was sued by Constand for defamation, which was settled.

    Source: The Guardian.
     

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