Improved non stop engine

Discussion in 'Pseudoscience' started by thinhnghiem, Jun 25, 2013.

  1. Q-reeus Valued Senior Member

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    3,411
    Nice of you to admit that attempt at perpetual motion failed. As for reason, well in a word friction about does it. But honestly, just go back and review (most) all the inputs that have emphasized the system is a pendulum with very slight damping and maybe but it seems after some effort didn't have significant external stray inputs (wind, vibrations) that may have skewed judgement. Are you happy now to accept there is no 'everlasting motion' possible, and that magnets are just acting as springs in effect?
     
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  3. el es Registered Senior Member

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  5. Aqueous Id flat Earth skeptic Valued Senior Member

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    Because you need energy to overcome the friction in your device. Magnets do not provide any energy. They only provide a force. You can't get energy from a force without spending more energy. That's why you can't get perpetual motion from permanent magnets like you thought.
     
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  7. thinhnghiem Registered Senior Member

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    This is the point I want to make clear. For example, I push a car (like toy car) with my hand. Whenever I keep using my hands to create force, the car keeps moving forward. The same with magnet. The force provided by magnets remains there, why any specimen affected by this force cannot move forever?
     
  8. Fednis48 Registered Senior Member

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    725
    The magnet isn't the only force working on the toy. Gravity is also working on it, which is why it oscillates in the first place. If the toy is close to the magnet, the magnet will push it away, causing it to move. As it moves, gravity will pull it back, eventually reversing its direction and causing it oscillate back to where it started. At this point, all the magnet's work has been undone, so the magnet will push the toy away again. And so on and so forth, until dissipative effects cause the toy to come to a stop at the location where gravitational and magnetic forces exactly cancel each other out.

    If magnetism really was the only force at work (like, say, if you did the experiment in space), the toy would accelerate off into the distance until it was too far away for the magnet to push on it anymore. At that point, it would keep moving at a constant speed until it ran into something else, and that speed would determine the maximum amount of energy you could extract from the system. The reason you can accelerate your toy car with your hand forever is that you follow it around as it moves, so you can keep applying a constant force no matter how it accelerates. You can do this because your body digests food to give it the energy to follow the car around, but a magnet with no external power source can't do anything similar.
     
  9. Aqueous Id flat Earth skeptic Valued Senior Member

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    6,152
    Very good explanation.

    Notice, thinhnghiem, Fednis48 speaks of work, which has a specific meaning in physics since it means "energy used to do something useful".

    Here there is a constant balance between the work done by gravity and the work done by the magnet. There is no net work, which simply means no energy is being produced. Notice how you can do this with springs and Fednis48's post applies as well. It's just that typical springs don't work as well, they have more loss, and it stops sooner.

    When you push a cart with your hand and make it move, you may believe that the force of your hand is causing the motion, but it's actually the energy you are spending in your leg muscles which is propelling the cart. You can understand this better by imagining that you are on a slope and the cart is pushing against you. You must apply a constant force to keep it from pushing you backwards. But nothing moves. This is why I said force can not produce energy. There has to be an energy source, and magnets don't contain that energy source you need.
     
  10. Aqueous Id flat Earth skeptic Valued Senior Member

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    6,152
    No, QQ, you're not.

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    Correcting me, that is.

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    Your statement is absurd. There is a reference frame, and that's all we're talking about.

    No he thinks he's close to discovering a perpetual source of energy.

    Nothing you are saying has anything to do with . . . well anything. You sound like half a dozen other cranks here who like to pretend their daydreams mean something. But they don't. You have to take all of this nonsense into the lab and get a reality check. (Can't believe I invoked that name. One of your alters, perhaps?)

    Faraday's cages are in every kind of device you can imagine, from the shielding in your microwave oven, to any other conductive surface used as a safety ground. The "under unity" simply means there is some loss in storing change and trying to retrieve it. But none of this has any bearing on anything. You're just speculating, but it's all oversimplified and convoluted. In short, you can't get there from here. There is no free lunch, and there are not that many ways to find energy that have already been found. Not until some new breakthrough takes science into a whole new technology.

    In any case, you can't get energy from a magnet in the same way you can't get blood out of a turnip. Force and energy are not the same thing.
     
  11. thinhnghiem Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    45
    Great,

    Sometimes I read in medical magazine, they present some material which can cure patient out of diseases. The explanation is that the material is magnetized, and it emits some kind of energy. Is there any mistake there?
     

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