UFOs (UAPs): Explanations?

Discussion in 'UFOs, Ghosts and Monsters' started by Magical Realist, Oct 10, 2017.

  1. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    39,397
    There's your tell-tale "LOL" again! We see that every time you're confronted with an inconvenient truth that you'd rather ignore. It's like a tic.

    Now, let me see. Who was it who wrote the following:
    Seems like so long ago - a whole 20 posts ago in this thread - that it's kinda hard to remember, isn't it? So let me tell you: it was you!

    So, strange that after starting a pissing match, you are now complaining about having a pissing match. Kind of ironic, wouldn't you say?

    Here's some advice: next time you decide to make a personal attack on somebody's character, think before you post. If you don't, you might find that you don't enjoy the reply you get - just like now.

    Your "points" don't just go away because you let them lie for a while, until you get your second wind to post more of the same.

    I notice that here, while complaining, you insert the implied claim that 'the military isn't behind ufo sightings', whatever that is supposed to mean. So, while pretending you don't want to discuss your pet topic, here you are discussing it. Kind of ironic, once again, don't you think?

    About what? Are you referring to every UFO sighting anywhere anytime, or something specific? Do you think all UFO sightings have the same explanation?

    All of them? Still? What are you talking about?

    I'm chilled out, I assure you. Don't worry about me. I'll be just fine.

    Indeed. Failed attempts. LOL.
     
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  3. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    LOL! I see. So you don't really know what a pissing match is now. Hint: it's not a negative character analysis. Your pissing match started in post 2760 and argued the contrary of every single sentence I stated. It wasn't even trying to make a point. It was just arguing for the sake of arguing against my thesis that ufos can't be secret military craft. That's what I'm talking about here. There were no claims there of ufos or ghosts or bigfoot. Just your usual pissing contest to try to win something you obviously never get enough of. What was at stake there for you James? What did it prove to your imaginary audience of adoring readers? Nothing, except how argumentative you are and how obsessed you are with just being right over being understanding.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2019
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  5. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    A brilliant encapsulation of Magical Realist's difficulty with rational analysis. MR demonstrates his belief that things are true by default, unless they can be debunked.

    UFOs are real unless they've been debunked.
    Ghosts are real unless they've been debunked.
    Leprechauns are real unless they've been debunked.
    Santa is real unless he's been debunked.
    The Cosmic Unicorn is real unless it's been debunked.

    Never mind that they have been debunked, MR does not understand on whom the burden of proof lies.


    Indeed.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2019
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  7. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    MR requests that everybody just please stop disagreeing with him. He does not like that. This is a blog, not a discussion forum.
     
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  8. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    It was pointing out that, as usual, your "thesis" is nothing other than opinion unadulterated by any whiff of evidence.

    You made a song and dance about how you don't "buy" the idea that some UFOs might be military aircraft. Why are the people who are reading this thread supposed to give a damn about your beliefs on that? You're the guy who believes that Bigfoot is real. The only reason you state your "opinion" on this matter - in the most general possible terms, in the pretence that somebody has claimed that all UFOs are military aircraft - is to try again to reverse the burden of proof. This is what you don't get: it's not me, or anybody else here, who has to prove your wild UFO stories wrong. It's up to you to show that the ghosts and UFOs and monsters you believe in are real. And on that score, the best you ever have to offer is somebody else's grainy video that you copied across from youtube. Post this one, then back to the tube to find the next shiny-looking pebble. Post that. Repeat ad nauseam. Waste of time.

    You also tried to sneak in yet another claim about "craft". A UFO, as you know, is not a "craft" until it has been identified as such. Have you - or anybody else - managed to positively ID a single UFO as an alien craft yet? Of course you haven't. You're even open about being all over the joint about what you believe UFOs are. Maybe they're Martians. Maybe they are time travellers. Maybe they are ghost of Great Aunt Betty. Maybe they are interdimensional visitors from the gamma quadrant. Of maybe you've just got an overactive imagination and some kind of bizarre need for these things to be little alien friends of yours, or whatever.

    You're not fooling anybody. When you triumphantly crow to somebody "Thanks for confirming that UFOs are real", we know what you mean by "UFOs". We know, because you've told us over and over again how you use that word. You use it exclusively to mean craft - piloted, intelligently-controlled vessels peopled by who-kn0ws-what-entities. That's extrapolation piled upon assumption piled upon desperate wishful thinking. When you say that, also, you're also not being honest. Because you know that if somebody comes back and says "I've never said UFOs aren't real", you will jump up and down and declare that the person is right with you in believing in those aliens/time travellers/body thetans or whatever the hell you have decided they are in your most recent fevered imaginings.

    What's at stake for me is that somebody on the internet is wrong, and has been consistently and egregiously wrong for years. For the benefit of readers who may be unfamiliar with this man and his methods, I like to point out where the errors lie, lest they too fall into the chasm of irrationality. The world is already full enough of people who don't know how to think things through. If I can help just one person to break through the mind fog, I will consider it a job well done.

    I understand everything that is important to understand about you and your views on this, Magical Realist. I have had, after all, years to observe you and your antics, in passing. The only outstanding thing I'd like to get to the bottom of, just for my own curiosity's sake, is why. As in, what is it that drives you into this denial of reason? What went wrong that brought you to this point? It's actually quite sad. You tell me you don't believe in God. Do you believe in any kind of afterlife? If not, realise that you only get this one life. Why fritter it away on rubbish? Can you find no better way to use the short time you have?
     
  9. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    16,608
    I offered my point of view on the topic being discussed just like everyone else does here everyday. Why am I not allowed to do that here James? Why are my posted views so upsetting to you personally? Are my views so dangerous that they have to be sequestered and contained by a barrage of angry overdefensive questions?

    I'm a respected member of this forum. I have many friends here who care what I think about things. Why shouldn't people give a damn about what I think? It's a discussion forum where lots of beliefs and opinions are posted daily. Am I suddenly not allowed to do that here just because you disagree with me?

    That's because over the past 70 years the thousands of sightings of ufos have shown ufos to be some sort of disc shaped or oval shaped craft that flies at supersonic speeds, stops on a dime, makes sudden turns, and even disappears only to reappear somewhere else. I have posted numerous credible compelling accounts of this over and over here. There is no other logical conclusion to make but that they are craft piloted by some unknown but advanced intelligence. That's what the evidence shows.

    I get it. You're on some sacred mission to save all the masses of stupid people out there who don't know how to think like you do. So you're gonna show them how to think and what to conclude on the subject of ufos. That's an awfully big burden to take upon yourself. Why don't you just trust that people can think for themselves and decide the issue based on their own examination of the evidence? That's what I assume. I'm not trying to tell people what to think or believe about the issue.

    I'm not revealing personal details of myself only to have them attacked and used against me by you and other trolling skeptics. I believe in ufos simply because that's what all the evidence shows. That they are real craft beyond the capabilities of any human to manufacture or pilot. That's an astounding prospect that has huge implications for our species and the future of our planet. But they still remain a mystery. And that's why we keep studying them. To learn as much as we can about them with the hope that one day we may eventually figure out what they are and who's behind them and maybe even make contact with them.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2019
  10. Yazata Valued Senior Member

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    5,902
    I won't 100% dismiss it, but I'm very skeptical.

    Since medieval and even ancient times, as Jacques Vallee has discussed in some of his books. So whatever it is (whether subjective imagination or more objective flying objects) it's been happening pretty much throughout human history.

    Anyone who follows the current state of aerospace engineering would recognize that things like the tic-tacs appear to display performance well beyond any known aircraft type or technology.

    That's why while I speculated about UAVs earlier in the thread, I nevertheless remain rather doubtful about it really succeeding as an explanation.
     
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  11. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    39,397
    Magical Realist:

    Did somebody stop you doing that? No, wait, your opinion is still right there, available for all to see, for what it's worth.

    It's not your views. Your views are just the usual rubbish we get from the people whose minds are so open their brains are at risk of falling out of their heads. I think, if I'm honest, that two things upset me, just a tad. The lesser of the two is that a guy like you, who seems normal enough in most respects, somehow got sucked into this abyss, and fell so hard that he is unable and/or unwilling to extricate himself; it sort of saddens me - the waste. The more upsetting thing is that you want to pull other people down into the hole to keep you company. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, they say.

    You're just upset because I come along now and then to inject a dose of reality into your fantasy world. I can see how that must unsettle you.

    Nah. You're mostly a laughing stock. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but you've kind of made it your goal to be the poster boy for how not to think about stuff.

    Again, I'm not sure where you're getting this message that you're not allowed to say what you think. You do very little else on this forum, other than cutting and pasting videos and tellings us all about how you've found another piece of woo to add to your collection of dubious beliefs.

    Disc shaped like the planet Venus, you mean? As for the supersonic speeds thing, there's never been any good evidence for that, and you know it. Nor for the unphysical manoeuvering. And the fact that these things disappear and appear at random really ought to tell you something important about the "witnesses".

    Nah. You've posted an endless stream of low-quality nonsense, mixed in with the occasional outright fake.

    You know the evidence shows no such thing. Which again only leaves the question of why you are like this.

    You continually insist on calling your co-believers stupid - something I am careful to avoid except where there is clear evidence. Do you include yourself in that description, too? The fact is, smart people can be really good at believing things that are wrong. That's because they start believing for reasons that have nothing to do with rational argument or evidence, then they construct clever rationalisations to try to shore up the belief.

    It's not about what I think that's important. I'm more interested in getting a message across about how to think. I'm not asking people to believe stuff just because I believe it. I'm trying to help equip them so they are capable of making a sensible judgment on their own. I'm a supporter of reality-based beliefs.

    The people who are stuck in the woo rut that you're stuck in are demonstrably not well equipped to think about this stuff for themselves. Mostly, I find that they don't have a good idea about what does and doesn't constitute evidence, or about where to draw the line between reasonable deduction and unfounded flights of fancy. Critical thinking is a learned skill, and I like teaching it.

    Nah, I'm not buying that for one minute. It might be plausible if it was just the UFOs, but with you it's all kinds of woo. Bigfoot. The Loch Ness Monster. Ghosts. The Yeti. Demons. Pixies. Leprechauns. Extra-dimensional pyramid power. If it's woo, there's a good chance you're buying it. If your beliefs had anything to do with evidence, you would have recognised them for bunk long ago, especially after I helped you to see your errors. But something deeply emotional is obviously stopping you from using your brain when it comes to this stuff. It's as if your Mom left you when you were little, or something, and you only had an ET doll to keep you company.

    A "craft" is not a UFO. A craft implies that something has been identified as a vehicle. You know you've never cleared that particular hurdle.

    Not so far. 70 years these little green men have been visiting, you tell us, and what have we to show for it? A few mutilated cows, some frightened farmers and a squad of guys wearing tin foil hats. Huge implications indeed. LOL.

    What? We haven't made contact? No close encounters, then? No abductions? No probing? No sexual experiments on humans? No human-alien hybrids hidden in Area 51? Are you telling me the X Files wasn't a documentary after all?
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2019
  12. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Your inferences are painfully obvious.
    Or any other number of apparent weather anomalies, some known, others possibly unknown, and the fact that reflected/refracted/magnified/distorted light can play extraordinary tricks with what we see. eg: Do you believe a full Moon on the horizon is really as big as it appears? Not to mention, extreme delusions and hallucinations of the poor souls making these claims.
    And with the small numbers that do go as unexplained, they remain just that...Unexplained, or unidentified, as defined by the real accepted dictionary meaning, not some cherry picked classification that just happens to fit your agenda.
    You give James too much credit. It is totally scientifically debunked, for many reasons as has been explained to you many times. "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence"
    To answer probably mankind's most asked question ever, "are we alone" would be a momentous event in human history...far surpassing the Moon landings or anything else. So again, MR, tell me why these apparitions that you claim as real, just keep on flitterring in and flitterring out again, making the occasional probing medical experiment on some isolated gullible individual, away in some backwoods. Being obviously far in advanced of us, and obviously not wanting of anything, why don't they make there presence officially known?

    And finally a more personal question directed at you and a result of previous posts here. If you feel so victimised [note that this is a science forum where critical thinking and the scientific methodology hold supreme] why do you post here? As mentioned earlier, are you simply that far down in this woo well you have created, that you are unable to get out, and are trying to drag others down to your depths of gullibility? Why not spend your time on a woo forum where you would be welcome with open arms?
     
  13. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    Why do I post in the UFOs, ghosts, and monsters forum? Because I'm interested in those topics and enjoy posting evidence for them. Why do you post here if you are so upset about these topics?
     
  14. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Why would I be upset over things that are simply a figment of your's and other gullible people's imagination?
    Again, you are the one who "objects" to anyone giving or showing that your 'interests' are simply a possible result of one of many other possibilities, on a science forum that simply asks for real scientific evidence.
    Again, why do you post on a science forum then? There are presumably other forums that would automatically and without question, align with your beliefs?
     
  15. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    So the ufo you claim you saw once was just "a figment of your's and other gullible people's imagination"? Howso?
     
  16. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Stop being obtuse MR. The UFO I saw was exactly that...a UFO as defined and with the emphasis on the U..unidentified.
     
  17. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Which is great.

    And presumably, you don't mind if the rest of us analyze them, looking to separate the wheat from the chaff.
     
  18. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    So when you see a UFO, it's real. But when other people see one, it's a figment of gullible people's imagination? That seems an awful convenient distinction to me.
     
  19. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    As you are continuing to feign stupidity MR, let me rephrase....Some UFO'sightings may be real...that is UFO's and unidentified object....others maybe a figment of some active imagination, a trick of light, atmospheric conditions etc. The claim that UFO's are of Alien origin, is totally bogus and without scientific support. Is that simple enough for you MR?
     
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  20. Gawdzilla Sama Valued Senior Member

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    "Being infuriated" is the same as "don't mind"?
     
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  21. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    Don't kid yourself James. You have no concern for me. You do your darnedest to try to portray me here as some stupid and gullible fool who needs to be educated on how to think properly. That's not a genuine concern for my plight. It's a self-serving psychological projection on me of all the things you hate and loathe. I become the atoning whipping boy for all your disgust and resentment against people who manage to believe things you can't. One suspects a little jealousy here as well, as if I'm reaping rewards and pleasures that you strictly deny yourself all in the name of being rational and consistent. I'm also something of a paradox for you in that being intelligent and normal I can still believe in these things without ever being convinced otherwise. That just sticks in your craw doesn't it? It upsets you that I am not one of your submissive sheep to bow down to every argument you make. IOW, that I can think fine for myself without being bullied into your skeptical materialistic worldview
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2019
  22. Gawdzilla Sama Valued Senior Member

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    You have to admit that almost nobody here thinks you know how to think properly.
     
  23. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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