In defence of space aliens

Discussion in 'UFOs, Ghosts and Monsters' started by Magical Realist, Oct 10, 2017.

  1. Gawdzilla Sama Valued Senior Member

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    You have no proof, no good evidence, for any aliens on Earth. Quibble your own ass.
     
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  3. Michael 345 Home 2 days still jet lag sleepy Valued Senior Member

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    So you concede - 70 years no evidence

    To front into a court with the claim "I'm sure there is evidence but it's unavailable" you would be dismissed out of the court and might have to front the judge for wasting court time

    Like you keep putting forward something you cannot explain BUT instead of saying "this is strange and we have no explanation" you make a standing Grand Canyon leap "it's a alien spaceship" and expect to land on the other side intact

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  5. Yazata Valued Senior Member

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    No, no,no,no, Michael. You snipped out where I discussed evidence (as opposed to proof):

    The word 'evidence' is not synonymous with 'proof'. And evidence doesn't typically function as proof in science.

    In technical philosophy of science terms, this is a question of Inference to the Best Explanation.

    https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/abduction/

    Suppose that you get up in the morning and discover a plate, crumbs and an empty glass on the kitchen table that you remember was clean the night before. You would probably conclude that somebody you live with got up during the night and made him/herself a snack. The plate, glass and crumbs would certainly be evidence of that.

    But the plate, glass and crumbs aren't proof that one of your housemates made a midnight snack. It's possible that an intruder broke in and fixed a snack. Perhaps unlikely if there's no sign of a break-in and nothing taken, but nevertheless it remains logically possible. Or maybe your memory of the table being clean the night before is mistaken. Or maybe you were sleep-walking and did it yourself.

    The point is that the logical connection between the plate, glass and crumbs and the conclusion about a hungry housemate isn't logically necessary and it isn't logical deduction. (Despite Sherlock Holmes repeatedly calling it that.) Nor is it induction. The nature of the logical connection is of great interest to philosophers of science and to logicians generally.

    That's because a body of evidence (whether in science or everyday life) is often consistent with multiple hypotheses. Choosing the best one isn't always a trivial task and it needs to be better understood.

    With regards to UFOs, the problem isn't that there's no evidence. The problem is how to best draw conclusions from the massive body of evidence that obviously does exist. (People have been reporting seeing inexplicable things in the sky since ancient times.) Does the evidence really justify our concluding that space aliens are visiting us? Or is it more consistent with folklore, with what we might call proto-religious folk-belief? (I'm more inclined to go with the latter.)

    But that's just my speculation. The best and most defensible conclusion to draw at this point is probably agnostic as to whether some subset of the many reports correspond to physical phenomena in the objective world.

    It's indisputable that UFOs are a real phenomenon at the psychological and anthropological levels, since many people obviously believe in them. There are entire belief-systems emerging around that belief. That in itself is a phenomenon that needs further exploration. (I'm inclined to think that such an investigation might shed important light on how new religions emerge.)
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2018
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  7. Gawdzilla Sama Valued Senior Member

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    Real wishful thinking.
     
  8. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    The problem with the folkloric explanation for ufos is that the physical evidence often exceeds what one would expect from mere wishful thinking or faulty interpretation. Many accounts include multiple witnesses seeing the exact same thing either at the same time or at different times in different locations. Also, the ufo sometimes has physical effects. The Levelland TX ufo that appeared as a big glowing oval shape was seen by 15 motorists one night and reportedly happened when their engines failed. This can be explained by a sudden ionization of the air in the vicinity of the ufo resulting in a shorting out of the electrical system of the cars and trucks.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levelland_UFO_case


    Other effects of other sightings include those left on the bodies of the witnesses. There are many accounts of paralysis, EMF burns on the skin, blindness, and sickness accompanying sightings. Other accounts include vegetation being burned in fields leaving circular patterns or a strange white powdery residue. So my conclusion is that these aren't just mythical projections of someone's imagination but are real physical objects that leave traces on the environment.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2018
  9. Gawdzilla Sama Valued Senior Member

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    Obviously this "evidence" has withstood the examination of experts and been declared utterly real.

    Oh, wait.
     
  10. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    No Sama...it's all fake evidence. Big conspiracy of hoaxters out there taking fake photos of ufos and making up tall tales of flying saucers and burning circular patterns in fields just for the hell of it.

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  11. Yazata Valued Senior Member

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    Those recent Southern California reports of UFOs being observed on Navy radar and subsequently being observed visually by Navy jet pilots and recorded in infrared by their FLIR pods don't seem all that consistent with the folkloric interpretation either. It certainly suggests that something very interesting was physically happening. Frankly, I don't know what to make of that.

    That's why my official position is the agnostic one.
     
  12. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    That video is compelling evidence indeed. It's worth posting again:

     
  13. Gawdzilla Sama Valued Senior Member

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    If it wasn't shit evidence you'd have a case by now. It's shit evidence, so you have no case.
     
  14. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    Sounds like the fallacy of argumentum ad populum. Until more people accept it, it isn't true.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2018
  15. Gawdzilla Sama Valued Senior Member

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    Your evidence isn't valid. Your argument is valid.
     
  16. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    Why is my evidence not valid? I've posted like 8 cases so far in this thread. How are they not valid evidence?
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2018
  17. Gawdzilla Sama Valued Senior Member

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    Why should I help you make mud pies?
     
  18. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    I take it then that you can't support your claim?
     
  19. Michael 345 Home 2 days still jet lag sleepy Valued Senior Member

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    Yes ma Lord we have the proof. Sorry ma Lord it's not available

    That's called a distinction without a difference

    In the medical field we occasionally saw things we had not seen before

    We did not jump to the conclusion it was a alien disease

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  20. Gawdzilla Sama Valued Senior Member

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    No, you can't support yours, which is why I don't bother with them.
     
  21. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    Support what claim? You were the one that claimed my evidence was invalid. Invalid in what way?
     
  22. Gawdzilla Sama Valued Senior Member

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    No mud pies.
     
  23. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    Can't support your claim then. I'm not surprised abit.
     

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