In Praise of Utopia

Discussion in 'General Philosophy' started by spidergoat, Apr 8, 2010.

  1. phlogistician Banned Banned

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    No, you are talking rubbish. There are no "laws that govern the universe and our lives.".

    Things just happen, they aren't governed by anything other than their own nature.
     
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  3. Lori_7 Go to church? I am the church! Registered Senior Member

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    And there is order in nature. Things don't "just happen".
     
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  5. phlogistician Banned Banned

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    No, nature does entropy, so leads to disorder. Things do just happen, the study of science confirms this.
     
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  7. Lori_7 Go to church? I am the church! Registered Senior Member

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    http://www.entropylaw.com/
     
  8. Neverfly Banned Banned

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    Lori_7,

    You may choose to believe in something. But without Evidence, you're simply believing on faith.

    You cannot properly assert that "blind" faith as a value upon which to govern others lives and choices.
    Which is exactly what Utopia would require.
     
  9. Lori_7 Go to church? I am the church! Registered Senior Member

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    i didn't say anything about "blind" faith.

    imo, those who do not believe that perfection is attainable are blind, and they are so on purpose, because they run from the truth.

    some people don't want perfection. they want excuses to keep doing the wrong thing.
     
  10. Neverfly Banned Banned

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    You have said quite a lot about it being blind.

    Presenting an unsupported opinion about others will not help you either.

    Presenting Evidence to Support your claim (So that people don't BLINDLY agree with an unsupported claim) will help you.

    Show evidence that "Perfection" is attainable. This will require that you provide a definition of perfection that everyone on the planet will agree with.


    Good luck

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    ETA: While you are at it, define "Truth" since you used the word as if it had any meaning other than simply supporting your assertion.
     
  11. Lori_7 Go to church? I am the church! Registered Senior Member

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    are you trying to tell me that you've lived however many years on this earth without realizing that there is right and wrong?
     
  12. Neverfly Banned Banned

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    Please define as requested and Please provide evidence. Evasive arguments are unconvincing.
     
  13. Lori_7 Go to church? I am the church! Registered Senior Member

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    so are those who need me to document things that are obvious to any human being living on this earth.
     
  14. Neverfly Banned Banned

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    You are still evading.

    It is not obvious to me. Convince me. Use Logic. Provide evidence that supports your claims and you will find me agreeing with you. Evidence prevents blindness.
    It informs, educates and allows acceptance.

    Provide evidence and definitions rather than evasion.
     
  15. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

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    The only universal laws I know of are creation, sustenance, reproduction and death.:shrug:
     
  16. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

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    Beliefs are not laws, they are not even fact, nor knowledge they are just opinions or convictions.

    For example I believe heaven and 'communion with god' and the end of suffering and death are all unsubstantiated hokey wishful thinking. See what I mean?
     
  17. Neverfly Banned Banned

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    Instead of evading, no response. I will then assume that there is no evidence, are no probable and realistic definitions all can agree on and that the premise Lori_7 presented is based on Faith alone.
     
  18. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

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    Of course its based on faith, all religious dogma is based on faith.
     
  19. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

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  20. Lori_7 Go to church? I am the church! Registered Senior Member

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    a belief based upon the fact that there are some human attributes that currently, and rather obviously diminish the greater good. and based upon what i know about science, and religion, and my own spiritual experience, i believe those negative attributes will be "weeded out". nature/law/god will find a way. do you think we're "in tune, in harmony" with nature? the human race? do you see that certain human attributes prohibit that? what makes you think things aren't going to change?
     
  21. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

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    You believe, that's what you keep saying. I already outlined that beliefs are not fact nor knowledge simply opinion or convictions, nothing else.

    You haven't defined 'greater good', nor are you sure that others will agree with what you consider the 'greater good'.

    I think we are in tune with our own natures and I think we are a part of nature. I also think that things always change just not in the way you may anticipate

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  22. phlogistician Banned Banned

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    I understand entropy, as we studied it in my physics courses when I was at University, Lori.

    Maybe you should get an education and stop reading crap on the Internet?
     
  23. phlogistician Banned Banned

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    'the greater good', an undefined, vague notion that you hold in your head. Merely your opinion, Lori, nothing more.
     

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