In regards to atheism.

Discussion in 'Religion' started by garbonzo, Oct 15, 2015.

  1. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    This is a very good point.

    It could well be that many current dictionaries are actually outdated, in effect, especially following the "New Atheist" movement that has sprung up since about 2004. There's a thriving virtual atheist community out there which is gradually working towards a de facto consensus about what atheism is and what it ideally should be.
     
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  3. gmilam Valued Senior Member

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    Wow... you sure do read a lot into a fairly innocent statement.

    The momma cat that brings a wounded mouse home to her kittens to let them play with it until it dies is being a good parent by teaching her kids how to survive.

    I'm sure the mouse has a different opinion.
     
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  5. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    That's just it, atheism in the strictest sense isn't a position on the question of the existence of god.
     
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  7. Michael 345 Valued Senior Member

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    Updating my post reading I see James R seems to have saved me from making a post in reply to the post from Yazata

    Thank you

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  8. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    Not dogmatic, just your natural position., which is you don't believe in God.

    Which is the reason why they do not believe in God.

    The fact that you hold to the idea that there should be external evidence of God's existence, is evidence of dogma.
    It stops you from comprehending what is God.

    It's got nothing to do with belief.
    God does not exist as far as you're aware.
    Unless He does, and your not saying.

    Jan.
     
  9. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    10,001
    Because you give the word a meaning that suits modern sensibilities does not mean the actual meaning of the word has changed. "Wicked" still means evil/morally wrong, despite its modern usage, which depicts it as brilliant.




    So what if JamesR has talked about it?
    I've talked about it as well.

    Do you think it is impossible that a theist can perceive God, and an atheist can't?
    According to the meanings.

    I use lack, the way it is defined.

    So you accept God exists?

    As far as you are currently aware God does Not exist. Unless He does. Start from the root Sarkus.

    Does God exist as you read this response.
    No?
    Then just say so.

    Typical sitting on the fence nonsense.


    The difference is I accept. God, even though I sometimes forget Him. You don't accept God (for whatever reason).
    You accept that there should be external evidence of God, as a criteria for accepting Him. IOW you put yourself on the same level as God.

    Are you without God?

    I wonder if you're going to keep avoiding this question?

    Jan.

     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2017
  10. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    10,001

    If I forget God, I am without God, because I don't rely on God, I rely on my senses. At those times I don't believe in God.

    At some point, I might hear, read, or discuss something which reminds me that God Is.


    The atheist is in a position where for him/her God does not currently exist as far as they are aware. There is no reminding the atheist that God Is, because they cannot comprehend, or perceive God.

    Why?

    Because God does not currently exist. Hence, from all perspectives the atheist is without God.


    The atheist refuses to accept that he/she is without God because it implies that God does exist, but the atheist is unable to comprehend Him, while the theist can.



    Are you saying you and all atheists do not fool yourselves?



    That God doesn't currently exist for you, hence you believe that evidence that points to God's existence, will actually prove that God exists, is not a choice.


    The verse does not mean that you have simply decided that there is currently no God. It means something way deeper. You have said this in your heart. It is a part of the fabric of your current existence.



    But an atheist is so because he/she is without God. Atheism is the intellectual reasons one gives for being an atheist.

    I'm not big on ism's.



    How does this equate to him living his life as though God exists.?

    Actually that's a pointless question as you yourself are currently without God.



    Of course they are.

    Why would the meaning of being without God change over time? Being without God means just that,. So if you are without God, then you're an atheist. Get over it.

    It does not change because you want it to. It is what it is.



    Nope I have taken the root cause, and now I understand why you are the way you are regarding God.


    What? Do you think you are so complicated that we can't figure out the root cause of your spiritual position?


    Jan
     
  11. Michael 345 Valued Senior Member

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    WICKED means BOTH

    evil/morally wrong

    AND

    brilliant

    depending on context

    And since we don't live in a bygone era we should use the current meanings of all words in their modern context

    I note your post are not written in Shakespearean English which to me indicates cherry picking of definetions

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  12. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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  13. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    But it actually means the former.
    The latter is at best, informal.

    A-Theos
    without - God.
    Sorry mate, there are no modern terms that can mean anything other than without God. It is the actual translation.

    What a crock of nonsense.

    Jan.
     
  14. Michael 345 Valued Senior Member

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    True

    But formal or informal is still counted as a meaning

    So this is the one word in all of language which is forever unchanging and unchangeable

    That should earn it a place in the Guinness Book of Records

    Are Mirriam-Webster aware of this words unique property?

    Do you know how it aquired such a property?

    Not even close to Shakespearean English

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  15. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    That would be an error, true.
    For anyone - right?
     
  16. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    Not to be taken seriously.

    I know that it describes every single atheist'position regarding God. It is the only definition that does.
    How can you object to that?
    Do you believe it actually applies to you, or are you denying it?

    Jan.
     
  17. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    10,001
    What do you mean?

    Jan.
     
  18. Michael 345 Valued Senior Member

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    Would you consider yourself ' Not to be taken seriously '?

    Does not and never has

    Because it does not and never has

    I have repeatedly requested from you and others clarification of my position and no clarification has come forth

    So once more into the breach

    I believe in Satan who is a god so I am not without god

    Am I
    • atheists (not believe in (without) god the white robe version) or
    • thesist (believe in (not without) god but the red cloak version) or
    • satanists (equal to christians of the white robe version believers) or
    • without (lacking god because he is not the white robe version) or
    • any mix of the above?
    Have you any definite answer?

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  19. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Oh for cryin' out loud. You sound like a broken record.

    Keep repeating it often enough and you might even convince yourself.
    Norman coordinate. Norman coordinate.


    Insisting someone is without something in no way implies that the something exists. Watch:

    I posit something called fnords.
    You are without fnords. You are afnordist. That is your loss.
    All you have to do is believe in fnords and they will become clear to you.
    Hah! I have proven - with unassailable logic - that fnords actually exist!

    Shoot, not quite. All I have to do now is repeat this same thing 300 times. Now it's unassailable!
     
  20. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    I don't know why we keep indulging Jan in this illogic. What are we hoping will happen here? It's not like he's ever going to say 'OK, after listening to your feedback at great length, maybe I can admit my logic for the existence of God is not as rock solid as I thought.'

    We've shown to any reasonably logical person that the objective existence of God is not defensible. I don't know why we continue to seek Jan's concurrence.
     
  21. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    God doesn't exist as far as you're aware.
    Am I correct?

    Jan.
     
  22. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    10,001
    I don't get the question?
    Would you?

    So you believe God exists for every atheist?

    Okay.

    Jan.
     
  23. Michael 345 Valued Senior Member

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    Of course you don't

    Absolves you of answering

    Does not and never has

    Immaterial

    I believe in Satan who is a god so I am not without god

    AND

    keep going you are almost there


    Am I
    • atheists (not believe in (without) god the white robe version) or
    • thesist (believe in (not without) god but the red cloak version) or
    • satanists (equal to christians of the white robe version believers) or
    • without (lacking god because he is not the white robe version) or
    • any mix of the above?
    Have you any definite answer?

    I put the question in large script as you appear to have missed it in smaller script


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