In regards to atheism.

Discussion in 'Religion' started by garbonzo, Oct 15, 2015.

  1. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    And think of volcanoes.

    Thats the problem with anologies they sound sortta smart but when you think about it you get exception after exception such that the anology fails big time....

    But we are told that the bible was for folk of a different time so we must make allowances that today although they seem like nonsence and we can still find wisdom.

    I disagree and I bet you do also.


    I say drop the anology state what you really mean to say and look to see if when expressed in clear language it makes sence.

    I suspect you would be with me here as you present posts that are clear and to the point.

    Which all boiled down means this.
    Jan and Wellwisher...please......
    If you have evidence of god present it ...drop the symbolism etc. use clear language and be clear....

    God is... Not evidence.

    Look inside your mind...Not evidence.

    You don't know where to look...not evidence.

    Such and such a bible passage..not evidence.

    Alex
     
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  3. Michael 345 Valued Senior Member

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    True and I sorta missed that

    However in my defence

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    your most worshipful honour

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    the god people of today also miss the point

    the bible was for folk of a different time so


    why

    we must make allowances

    when god people preach

    the bible is as relevant today as it was then???

    God isn't ..... is Evidence of absence

    Look inside your mind ..... Since MIND is a processing system of the brain there is nothing physical to look inside of

    You don't know where to look .... Just been told inside your mind - pay attention. I just explained why that not possible

    Such and such a bible passage ...... Ah your interpretation is lacking

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    I rest my case and that is probably not all I have to say but enough for the moment

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  5. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    Correct. All that's in your mind are thoughts.
     
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  7. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    Doesn't matter. Spiritually you have all the time in the material world, to come to the understanding that God Is.

    Is that what you meant when you said you have looked for evidence?

    I don't need leads.
    But if you think evidence is given by asking people for it, it's hardly surprising.

    What else have you done?

    Asking for evidence of God is a pointless pursuit. Probably that's why some atheists love citing (no evidence). It implies that God is simply another phenomenon.

    Like I said be sincere in your study of God. At first it will seem hard to get your head round, but I believe, with perseverance, you can begin to seriously comprehend.

    Nope. It's really simple, and obvious, God Is. I've never seen or been in contact with anything I could call a miracle, apart from the majestic creation of this virtually realistic reality we call life, and it's variation and abundance.

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    So you ask theists to show you God, you read the Bible, and glimpse the Battlefield scenario, and you believe you have done enough to say there's no evidence of God?
    Yer havin a larf mate!

    Talking about religion isn't reality?
    That's silly talk.

    No it means that at some point you will comprehend God Is.

    Jan.
     
  8. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    All perceptions are evidence of God, based on general definitions.

    jan.
     
  9. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    No what I mean is...I ask for evidence and none is presented.

    No hardley surprising at all Jan.

    I expect when someone complains to the police that his neighbour killed his dog the copper will ask for evidence and if provided with evidence will review that evidence so as to determine if it supports the claim of the neighbour accusing his neighbour.

    A reasonable approach and certainly better than the police taking the word of the complainant and taking the matter to court where the case would be thrown out because of lack of evidence.

    Jan do you think supporting evidence is important or should we just take someones unsupported assertion.

    There are so many things that I have done that I could write a couple of boring books, different jobs, different marriages, different hobbies.... And perhaps relevant attended Sunday School and church to be preached to about God...I recall asking questions but the answers never seemed to address my questions and for some reason I am now reminded of those experiences.

    I must agree Jan I ask you and sometimes you have not even acknowledged my post and other times although you reply I am not offered any evidence.

    So I must agree a pointless pursuit.

    It implies God does not exist an implication that could be rebutted with evidence one could think.

    I know you mean well Jan but I say similar to you...Be sincere in your approach and you could accept God does not exist and move to a higher level of enlightenment.

    And I say the same to you higher enlightenment is not beyond you.

    Think of the neighbour and the dog situation.

    A point could come for the copper to say well I have looked into the matter and without you presenting some sort of evidence there is nothing more that can be done.

    So I am left with. God is.

    Thanks for taking me on this journey.

    My request for evidence trumps your God is.
    Want to play another round you may get a better hand ..

    Have a good day Jan thanks for the chats as I said takes me away from my reality.
    Alex
     
  10. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Thank you Jan that is a start.
    If you could expand upon that I think we could discuss it...

    Alex
     
  11. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    If you insist on thinking that God, if He exists, does so like the things that exist in our perception, then you may as well not bother enquire, because God will always not exist from that type of awareness. If you are serious then must put away all preconceptions, because it's a lot simpler than you seem to think.

    Yes, I do. But you have to take everything into account.

    Well I truly am sorry about that.

    I meant from the pov that you will not be able to comprehend God, by starting from the position that everything you perceive is not only due to God's energies, but is God's energies. You are looking for something that exist and operates separate to God, and not looking at the whole picture. God isn't in bits, God is Whole.

    From your perception you are correct. There is no evidence of God's existence, and God doesn't exist. Hence you are an atheist. That's as far as it can ever go for you, until you break out of this thinking.

    Your concept of God doesn't exist, because if He did there would be evidence. There isn't, so He doesn't. That's all you can say. For me to accept that God doesn't exist, I would have to deny Him. So it is possible that I could do that, but I would be lying to myself. Then I would join the crusade to get God out of public life, debating theists, telling them how deluded they are. All so I can try to justify my pointless position. Nah!

    Great place to start.

    You have no idea.

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    jan.
     
  12. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    That's the end.
    You must work your way back.

    jan.
     
  13. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    There's nothing wrong with the spiritual pursuit of God. I certainly respect that, as I'll bet, most people here do.

    The only beef anyone here has had is the assertion that one can know, in some objective sense, that they have found the same God as everyone else.


    If you hadn't been so insistent from the get-go that it would stand up to objectivity, this thread would have come to a happy consensus about 800 posts ago.
     
  14. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Jan I say the same to you.

    You would have to be God to be able to take everything into account Jan.
    Does it not make sence to operate with what we can establish within some sort of reason rather than just invent an entity which even if found to exist would be beyond our understanding.

    Thank you but I would be one of many I expect.
    If God exists we can obviously say he was not an invention of man but there is no escape from the proposition that man created religion.

    I would bet there would be less atheists if there were no religions.

    It is the good people of a religion that do good work and taken advantage of to generate cash flow.

    I understand the proposition but that does not really take us any where.

    You can say God is everything but if you really accept that it means that you and I are each a part of God talking to each other, mere voices in his head.

    Could that work?

    And step two would be to surrender to imagining whatever I guess.

    Delusion is to surrender to imagination to a degree so how could one determine what is delusion and what is not?

    I would not like you to do that Jan.

    I approach the matter the same way.

    To say God exists I would know I was lieing to myself.

    I will take that as a yes.

    Oh no you seem to have draw the God is card again.

    Alex
     
  15. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    I get it you are busy and had no time to think.

    If you could continue re perceptions that could work.

    Alex
     
  16. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Well said.

    In general, when we look to discern imagination from reality, the criteria we use is physical evidence and falsifiability.
     
  17. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Even said better.
    I find nailing down where belief starts frustrating.
    Anyways I feel we are making progress ...
    Alex
     
  18. Michael 345 Valued Senior Member

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    I'm working on a much longer post which has at it's heart the anthropomorphism of Physics

    Will post as soon as I can

    Now even while working on a craft

    do I post it in current thread

    or

    start a new thread?

    Any thoughts?

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  19. Michael 345 Valued Senior Member

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    Do you have also have trouble nailing jelly to the wall?

    Belief walks into your brain when common sense walks out

    Frustrate no more

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  20. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Yes start a new thread.
    May help generate traffic.
    More traffic is good.
    Alex
     
  21. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Nailing jelly to wall puts one in a position of working with physical objects.

    A jelly, a nail and a hammer.

    We are already miles ahead.

    I can nail jelly to a wall it is simple if you think about it.

    Can you think how it could be done, It is simple really.

    Present your approach or ask how.

    Alex
     
  22. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Actually I now have two solutions.
    Alex
     
  23. Michael 345 Valued Senior Member

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    First you have to think like a jelly and ask yourself

    Do you want to be nailed to the wall?

    Next you have to accept

    wait for it

    Jelly Is

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    DaveC426913 likes this.

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