In regards to atheism.

Discussion in 'Religion' started by garbonzo, Oct 15, 2015.

  1. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

    There should have been three n(s) I blame the spell checker.
    The voices in my head told me so.
    I am the one, the chosen one, why would the voices lie.
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  3. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

    What you raised.
    I thought not paying attention was free.
    Well I certainly didn't.
    Well nothing on page one.
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  5. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

    Alex, come back when you have something of relevance.

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  7. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

    That's rude. It's not your place to tell someone they don't belong and are not relevant.

    You, of all posters, should be told to come back when you have something more than the mantra you're been repeating for about 500 posts -

    - but no one has been so rude as to suggest you should go away and come back once you're worthy.
  8. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

    Now now Jan I know you don't really mean that you are just a little tired or something.

    But I admit I have become a little tiresome but I am running out of material. You give me nothing to discuss.

    And well I was a bit put out by your various refusals to help me out when I have made simple requests.

    I was surprised you could not share how you find truth in comics.

    You know you could make it up to me if you just gave me the link for one, and directly answered the questions I ask that you avoid.

    I have attempted to be genuine but somehow I think you are still playing games with me.

    I even am starting to think you are starting to look down on me.

    I am trying to help you out of your hole, open the door to a higher enlightenment for you, and have you understand the scriptures are made up by superstitious ancients, that God is real but does not exist and you tell me I just keep repeating stuff.

    Where have I ever repeated that the scriptures are made up by superstitious ancients.

    Could it be my polite way of drawing attention to a flaw you exhibit but yet seem unaware and my polite approach is lost on you?

    Others hint that you are somewhat repetitious, evasive and ,I find this so hard to say, even not genuine at all.

    I won't entertain such negative beliefs about you Jan but to ask me to leave should cause you to look inward and ask how you really feel.
    You may need rest.

    Anyways let's continue.

    That reference to children being inclined to believe in God takes us to research which I suggest is biased by the personal views of the researcher and he has found exactly what he wanted to find.

    There is nothing to take away from that research.

    And if one were to accept for one moment the findings I suggest all that tells us is that belief in God is possible in simple undeveloped minds.

    I , we, the other members give you the opportunity to show us something, and you present an example of deepity...God is.

    You seem very intelligent however....

    In another thread Birch raised the prospect that what seems to be intelligence is perhaps no more than mere cunning and maybe I mistake what I take as intelligence on your part to be no more than cunning.

    But who cares Jan is Jan and God is.

    I am the fool to think you could save yourself from superstition and reach a higher enlightenment.

    Anyways get some rest and forgive me if I can not accept that God exists in the way a child may do.

    Forgive me if I don't find my life experience in a comic book.

    And forgive me if I say Santa and the Easter bunny do not exist.

  9. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

    I didn't say he doesn't belong.

    It's sad that your u have to sink to this level in order to feel positive about your position.

  10. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

    It was you who sunk to that level. I called you out on it. At least take responsibility for it.

    I feel positive about my position because I've logically boxed you into a corner with your own arguments. You have been reduced to simply repeating the same assertion over and over again.

    This is the fallacy of proof by repeated assertion.
    "...a proposition is repeatedly restated regardless of contradiction."
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2017
  11. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

    So you're saying God does exist then?
    If not, then I'm correct when I assert that God does not exist, as far as every single atheist.

    That you don't agree that the reason is because you are "without God" is neither here nor there. We know you are without God, but you can never admit it, because as far as you're concerned there is no God.
    So tell me how you have contradicted that?

  12. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

    Dave....Get ready for more of the same.
  13. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

    Alex, this is crap. You're better than this.
    Wake up man!

    I've explained stuff to you. If you want to talk about it properly, I'm fine with that. But I'm not going to take part in this.

    This is the kind of crap I'm talking about.
    You come across like an adult who has had an interesting life experience. So I find it disappointing when you sink to these levels.

    At least I've read the scriptures. You're waffling on about stuff with no explanation, or no reasoning.
    God Is, is the beginning. If you aren't prepared to accept that, then God will never be, as far as you have this mind-set. Which is fine. But that is as far as you can ever get.

    Others tend to not want to know the truth, which could be why they deny the Absolute Truth, and seek to suppress it.
    Like you're doing.

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    I notice with the atheists on here, they always act like "if there were evidence of God, we'd accept He exists. But what that means is, nothing will ever be evidence of God that meets there standard. Hence God never has to exist unless they deem it so.

    So there's no way he was doing science?

    I know Alex, theists have simple undeveloped minds.

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    You poor thing.

    I will try Alex, but it's going to be very difficult.

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    Same as above.
    Bye-bye Alex.

  14. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

    So there you have it.
    God is. Because Jan says so.
    And you're wrong because you want to know what evidence there is to support the assertion.
    Obvious really, innit?

    Can't you get it through your head that "god" is objectively real (subjectively speaking)? Or was that subjectively real, objectively speaking?

    I object! This subject (or, to be more precise, one of the participants herein) isn't rational.
  15. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

    Jan, knows the mind of God.

    End of story.
  16. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

    You just seemed upset Jan I was trying to be understanding I really think you could have replied differently and you usually do.

    Even when someone really has a go at you, you take it in your stride and come back with a neat reply.

    Your reply was not in keeping with your usual good form.

    Even now you seem stressed somehow and I can't believe it is anything that I have said.

    You have Jan and I took the trouble to express my appreciation in what I though was a very open way and certainly I was sincere, in fact I was somehow touched by the way you were dealing with me.

    But now you seem upset.

    I hope that all in your personal life is ok if its not remember things always get better.

    Well that was clear from my view point I wanted to talk but you avoid answering some things and really if I had given a link and you had forgoton it and asked for it from me I would have given it to you and I would have been happy you were interested enough to ask.

    Even this response is so unlike you Jan and really just causes me to worry that you are OK.

    Look if you need to talk to someone just PM me as sometimes just having someone listen can make you feel better.

    OK you do seem sensitive so let me apologise.

    I was using short hand of a fashion.

    Read where I said comics to be...movies about comics and the characters therein.

    It was not meant to cause offence.

    Well I hope you feel less disappointed.

    My point was that I do not regard fiction as useful for me. If you get something out of it that's OK its just that I do not.

    Our opinions differer that's all.

    I think the scriptures are made up.

    Page witnesses but it is presented that way.

    My reasoning turns upon that type of observation.

    I could go thru any scripture you like and point out why it does not add up if you like.

    My point is all were written by folk who really did not have a clue and in many cases don't add up today.

    My opinion Jan.

    OK let's say I just do not get it.

    I need something more satisfactory to work things out and I do not understand why you think that unreasonable.

    Yet you simply say God is..that does not help but you repeat it rather than realise I don't get it and use your skill with words to explain things better.

    I don't get why you just keep saying God is and expect me to get it moreover why when clearly I don't get it why you try more of the same.

    But Jan that is simply unfair and unreasonable. I asked for something anything.

    Something to start with that could be built upon.

    Your response has not provided a square one.

    I say God does not exist simply to get you to say ..yes he does and if you look at how a tree grows etc whatever.... there would be something.

    You don't get it that I we need something that offers some reasonable indication..I we can't just go OK we will believe in a made up character of which we have no evidence.

    That is the point about Santa and the Easter bunny your approach to God is no different than an approach to a fairey tale and you fail to see that.

    I we don't believe in fairey tales but you treat us as you expect us to approach the serious matter of God just as you would a fairey tale.

    You must see that surely.

    Personally I think he is using science to arrive at a pre conceived result.

    My opinion.

    Also I found differently with my personal experience and observing other families.

    If you Jan were doing such science is there any question that you would not be influenced by your belief.

    Be realistic you know and I know it would go your way.

    I we can tell that by your approach to the thread title the dictionary says what it says yet you will not accept it and you proceed as if the dictionary and the current definition of atheist does not exist... And you do that over and over and over..

    Deny that if you can.

    You seem to have a chip on your shoulder.

    Read what I said again.

    Let me put it another way.
    Children can believe in stuff be cause they have undeveloped minds...that's why they believe in Santa...when they develop they can work out that it would be impossible for Santa to visit billions of homes..

    Yet you think I am having a shot that your kind are some how stupid and to think that after I tell you the high respect I have for you, the belief that I think you are smarter than me is beyond me Jan.

    Think about it .

    You don't mean it.

    I bet you have had a hard week relax, rest play some music because honestly you don't seem your normal on the game self.

    My point..I can just accept a story I hoped you would see how I parallel the two and somehow understand.

    Bye Jan be kind to yourself.
  17. Sarkus Hippomonstrosesquippedalo phobe Valued Senior Member

    So accept the premise as true to be able to reach the conclusion that the premise is true.
    Circular. Question begging. The usual stuff.

    Move along, people. Nothing to see in the train-wreck of Jan's arguments. Move along. These aren't the droids you're looking for. Move along. Move along.
  18. Michael 345 In China - finding my way :) Valued Senior Member

    Do you think the train wheels stopped spinning at Station REALITY but then went into reverse?

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  19. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

    So God does not exist, because of your opinion. I'm fine with that. That is why you are atheist.

    But like I said, nothing is going be what you regard as evidence for God, because God does not exist for you.

    We can only go so far with your concept (which need never exist), meaning it is up to you what is defined as God. And you think this is reasonable why? Because you have no idea of what God is, and you are not prepared to be reasonable in a discussion with people for whom God Is.

    The discussion was essentially finished when you began this pathetic patronisation. I've said my piece, it has hit home, and you need to make me look as though I'm angry, or emotional. I have had a brilliant time in this thread, but as usual always it can only go so far.

    I don't mind if you want to chat, without all the crap.

    If you don't get it, it's probably because God does not exist for you, and as such you are without God.

    Do you think that could be a possibility?
    We can currently only look at things from your perspective.

    I accept the dictionary definition exactly for what it's practical value is.
    I also know there are two perspectives of God. God Is, and God does not exist.

    In light of that, lacking belief in the existence of God or gods, is purely an intellectual position, or subjective if you prefer. There is no practical application of God probably does not exist. It means God does not exist.

    So either God Is, or God does not exist to the atheist. I find that atheists like yourself cannot bring themselves to even take seriously the idea of God Is. They pretend, like you, that they don't get it, or they say it's not enough. Anything to not get into a discussion where God is taken seriously. You have to make a joke of it, or turn the negative attention on the person who see the futility in your protests.

    It is glaringly obvious.

    You're not listening. I accept it, because for you God does not exist. This is why I have to keep repeating myself, so that you always know the root cause of your current condition.

    Last edited: Apr 22, 2017
  20. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

    1. consent to receive or undertake (something offered).
      "he accepted a pen as a present"
      synonyms:receive, agree to receive, welcome, take, take receipt of, get, gain, obtain, acquire, come byMore

    2. 2.
      believe or come to recognize (a proposition) as valid or correct.
    Alex doesn't believe, but he could come to recognise it as valid or correct. But I don't think he wants to.

    Yes move along folks, before you begin to recognise that the original meaning of atheist, is very accurate, despite it's implication.

  21. Michael 345 In China - finding my way :) Valued Senior Member

    You got god is

    Then you got told in no uncertain terms that

    NO evidence would be good enough for you

    Followed by NO skerrick of evidence presented

    to test if just might be conceivably good enough

    Followed by being blamed
    1. For even asking for evidence
    2. For being without god
    3. and as a result of being without god
    4. how can you even
    5. ask for evidence
    6. for a god you don't believe in???
    And these words were engraved on the shell of the Great Turtle swimming in the void

    And it was Turtles ALL the way down

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    Xelasnave.1947 and Dr_Toad like this.
  22. Yazata Valued Senior Member

    This thread was originally about Isaac Newton's opinion of atheism. Then Jan popped into the thread and effectively hijacked it, as he or she has been doing to pretty much all discussions of the philosophy of religion on Sciforums for ten years now. The thread has continued on for some 1,100 posts since, without reaching any conclusion, without clarifying anything, without any new facts or arguments being introduced and without the discussion ever becoming any more sophisticated.

    It's just been going in circles, over and over.
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2017
  23. Sarkus Hippomonstrosesquippedalo phobe Valued Senior Member

    Ah, but you would think that, Yazata, as you're without God.

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