"Intellectual property" is no longer funny

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by Fen, Aug 29, 2003.

  1. Nasor Valued Senior Member

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    It's true that companies would still have limited incentives to invest in innovation, but the relatively trivial advantages that you've listed do not begin to compare with the motivation that they have now, which is making money. You're delusional if you think that innovation would not slow down if corporations couldn't hold intellectual property rights.
     
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  3. coolsoldier Registered Senior Member

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    The motivation behind all of the incentives that I listed is ultimately making money, and not allowing them to hold intellectual property will not prevent them from making money -- it might reduce their margins on the products they sell (similar to the concept of competition - a cornerstone of capitalism). Companies exist to make money; the ultimate motivator of everything they do is greed. This is perhaps one of the most compelling reasons to move control of intellectual property into the hands of individuals, who, while they may be motivated partly by greed, it is not their sole motivator.

    Edit: I know my last sentence doesn't parse but I'm too tired to think about how else to word it.
     
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  5. Nasor Valued Senior Member

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    The amount of money that companies are willing to invest in innovation is proportional to their expected profit. Intellectual property laws allow them to make a lot of profit. The motivations that you listed would generally have very limited potential profit, so they wouldn't cause the corporations to innovate as much. Thus progress would be slower.
     
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  7. Axe Registered Member

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    The idea of owning anything is not just illogical, it's "evil".

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    :m:
     
  8. Mystech Adult Supervision Required Registered Senior Member

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    Re: Re: "Intellectual property" is no longer funny

    Really? So then you won't complain when I come to your place to use all of your stuff, and just for convenience move it all over to my place, and then maybe rent out your home?
     
  9. coolsoldier Registered Senior Member

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    Re: Re: Re: "Intellectual property" is no longer funny

    I know that wasn't written to me, but I might just take you up on that if I could do the same with your stuff

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  10. Mystech Adult Supervision Required Registered Senior Member

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    Re: Re: Re: Re: "Intellectual property" is no longer funny

    Sorry, I value property rights too much, and wouldn't consent to such a thing. But remember, you're more moral than I am and don't buy into such primitive notions, so be a bigger man and let me take all of your stuff.
     
  11. lixluke Refined Reinvention Valued Senior Member

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    9,072
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    Once that happens the scavenging movie pirates haven't got anything to steal, so they stop making money, too, and there would simply cease to be a movie industry all together.
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    Even if that were an accurate representation, you act like that is such a bad thing.
    Even if the movie industry ceased to exist, which it won’t, who cares?
    It’s not an industry based on supporting people. It’s not an industry based on protecting humanity and humanity’s environment.
    It’s an industry based on entertaining people.
    Do you actually believe that without your precious movie industry, people would not find a way to entertain themselves?
    That creativity would cease to flourish because people no longer would profit from making movies.
    Do you really have such limited imagination that you would not be able to find fun and entertainment unless you were able to sit there and stare at a screen for two hours?

    It takes resources in the form of time, effort, and materials to create a movie.
    It takes resources to promote the movie.
    It takes resources on the consumer side to consume the movie so to speak.
    I could write an endless list on things such resources could be used on to benefit the world as opposed to dissipating them on some great film.


    Without IP laws:
    Say for instance somebody decides to spend his money to create a film.
    He decides to distribute the film.
    There would be no need for piracy because copying and selling the movie would be legal.
    People would take the film, copy it, and distribute it more.
    The price of the media carrying the film drops.
    More people have access to the film than they would if it wasn’t distributed freely.
    There might even be internet sights dedicated to freely sharing the movie to anybody that has the ability to download it.
    There is no doubt that this film would be available to more people than there would be if IP laws were in place.

    Would this person that created the movie profit?
    Perhaps. Perhaps profit isn’t important to this person.
    Would this movie be available to more people?


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    as an aspiring artist who hopes to start selling his work, I'm glad that I have that option, and am alowed to make a proffit off of those things which I create.
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    That’s nice. I’m sure you’re very happy about profiting at the expense of social progress.


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    If you steal my idea then there are certainly damages which can be incurred, that's why copyright violations are good grounds for suing. If you steal my idea and distribute it you've denied me all of the profit that should have been mine, and you've denied me the right to use my property how I want, and to restrict it's use. It's like taking my proverbial bicycle while I'm asleep and not using it, and riding it around the block only to bring it back with flat tires and scratched paint.
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    Ideas cannot be stolen. It’s physically impossible.
    It’s the reason IP laws that defy logic are completely irrational.
    Furthermore, the fact that you came up with an idea does not give you the right to own it.
    Especially because ideas cannot possibly owned.


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    Well policy wise, in a world without intellectual property laws forced disclosure makes a lot of sense. If you're supposed to believe that your ideas don't belong to you then it's wrong to hold them back from others and you should be obligated to give them up.
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    Wrong.
    Just because an idea doesn’t belong to you, does not make you obligated to disclose it.
    It is a person’s choice weather or not they decide to disclose.
    Forced disclosure is as idiotic as IP laws.
    Nobody owns the idea, and therefore nobody has the right to force a person to disclose an idea.
    If a person doesn’t feel like disclosing an idea, you have no right to force that person to disclose the idea.
    If a person does feel like disclosing an idea, that person has no right to force you not to use it either.


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    If you think society and culture are going nowhere, perhaps it's time to crawl out of your cave and bask in the awe of modern culture.
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    I’m sure you find modern culture quite impressive.
    I personally find nothing impressive about this primitive society. I’d much rather live in a more advanced alien civilization.


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    There's a lot of really ugly and just flat out stupid ideas out there right now, but take a look at the advancements, and beauty we have created just in the last 50 years, it's really a very interesting and exciting world.
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    Ya too bad it could have taken 20 years to get to this point instead of 50.
    Too bad it will take 100 years to get to a point where we could be in 20 years if we didn’t have our heads in the ground like ostrich.


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    I couldn't agree more, but getting rid of Intellectual Property laws would only serve to destroy this ideal. Without Intellectual properties you can write whatever you like, but you sure as hell can't sell it, because someone else will steal it and do that for you. You'll make no money and get no recognition for your work, and guess what, you're going to learn that writing doesn't pay off, and you're going to stop, or if you happen to have a particular passion for it, you're going to continue writing but not going to share your work with anyone because you don't want to get screwed over like before.
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    Nobody is screwing you over.
    Just because others are profiting off of an idea you came up with doesn’t not mean you are getting screwed over.
    There’s lots of room for everybody. The only way you might feel like you’re getting screwed is if you’re a greedy jealous slime ball.

    Of course you can sell what you write.
    So can everybody else.
    Therefore, your work would be available to more people at lower prices.
    You can still make money.
    If you don’t feel like writing is beneficial to you, you can stop.
    I’m sure 10 others will take your place.
     

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