Intelligent Design Examples

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Ted Grant II, May 17, 2017.

  1. Ted Grant II Registered Senior Member

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    142
    My favorite examples of Intelligent Design are the Cuckoo and the Jewel Wasp.

    The adult cuckoo chooses it's victims very carefully. The cuckoo eggs are designed to mimic the eggs of the poor victims. The baby cuckoo has special claws on it's wings, created so that it can grip the sides of the nest in order to heave out the other eggs and chicks. It has a specially designed hollow in it's back to help it carry the loads. It has an angelic cry that sounds like a nest full of chicks, designed to fool the foster parents into giving it enough food. As a result of these and many other designed features, the cuckoo has more babies per year than any other bird.

    The female Jewel Wasp finds a cockroach and stings it in two particular parts of the brain which ingeniously partially paralyzes it and also disables its natural desire to run away. Obviously, the wasp could not have the mental capacity to develop these highly technical skills itself, so it is clear that it must be aided by a superior intelligent being. The wasp then to removes half of each of the roach's antennae then guides it to the wasp's burrow, by pulling one of them (like leading a dog), then the cunning wasp lays an egg on the helpless beast. It then leaves the little cave and blocks the entrance with stone, modelling the way Our Lord was buried, to prevent theft of the body. The cockroach, of course, is still alive and soon the egg hatches and a grub emerges, then eats its way into the cockroach, where it is able to consume the internal organs in exactly the right order to maximize the lifetime of the host. A week or so later, the grub begins the amazing transformation into an adult wasp (via a cocoon stage) and escapes to begin the next stage it its cleverly designed life cycle.

    Very clever of God to work out all the tiny details required in order to to achieve these wondrous results and is obvious proof that God did it, otherwise, how could all these things just randomly come together ?
     
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  3. birch Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, this would be closer to the truth if one were to consider that this universe is an enclosed system and how it operates via life would represent the concept of a god best. but it's the god of 'this' universe with these particular universal laws. Religionists try to paint god as some kind of innocent, compassionate and ethical being which does not coincide with the reality of the universe.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2017
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  5. Michael 345 Valued Senior Member

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    How much of his clever time did he use up designing the myriad of cancers?

    And he must have spent more than 6 days figuring out the bewildering number of diseases which affect life

    I really really like the bacteriophage

    a virus which infects a bacteria

    Nice touch

    Almost a twofer

    And I mentioned in a previous post

    on a personal level

    Every time I look in a mirror my brain ask myself

    Someone intelligent designed this?

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  7. DrKrettin Registered Senior Member

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    Why do people always cherrypick examples which are impressive?

    Why not pick the case of testicles on Homo sapiens? What a bloody stupid design, having something so sensitive in such a vulnerable position.

    Explanation 1) Evolved from animals walking on all fours, where the testicles are relatively safe
    Explanation 2) Created by a complete idiot.

    Why not pick the case of the recurrent laryngeal nerve? It is the nerve which connects the brain with the intrinsic muscles of the larynx.

    It is called recurrent because it goes from the larynx, down under the heart, and back up to the brain. This is the case for all mammals.

    And guess what - the larynx and the brain of a giraffe are not very far apart, are they? Less than a foot? But that nerve goes all the way down the giraffe's neck, round the heart, and back up again.

    Explanation 1) Evolved from a fish
    Explanation 2) Designed by a total cretin
     
  8. birch Valued Senior Member

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    Yeah, that's the universe. you also forgot to mention 'creepy' and 'weird' too.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2017
  9. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    "The extreme detour of the recurrent laryngeal nerves, about 4.6 metres (15 ft) in the case of giraffes,[26]:74–75 is cited as evidence of evolution. The nerve's route would have been direct in the fish-like ancestors of modern tetrapods, traveling from the brain, past the heart, to the gills (as it does in modern fish). Over the course of evolution, as the neck extended and the heart became lower in the body, the laryngeal nerve was caught on the wrong side of the heart. Natural selection gradually lengthened the nerve by tiny increments to accommodate, resulting in the circuitous route now observed"
    - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recurrent_laryngeal_nerve#Evidence_of_evolution
     
  10. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    12,536
    Yep. And it evolved over time. Early cuckoos likely laid their eggs in other nests by accident, for example as a result of their own nests being destroyed or as a result of partial blindness. Most of their chicks did not survive. A few did, and when they were adults, they would tend to mimic the same behavior, laying eggs in other nests because of the area they were in (destroyed nests more likely) or some genetic reason (partial blindness.)

    Then one day a baby cuckoo was born with a birth defect - a tiny bone spur on its wings. And suddenly he could push other chicks out of the nest. He survived and reproduced, and soon all cuckoos had this "defect."

    Then one day another cuckoo was born with just slightly stronger legs at birth - and he was even better at pushing chicks out of the nest.

    And so forth and so on.

    This is not to say that that's such a clever idea overall. Only about 3% of cuckoo eggs survive; the rest are killed by the parent birds through either attack or neglect. But 3% is just enough to keep the species going. Perhaps the next stage of their evolution will increase that to 5%.
     
  11. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    5,751
    Not to mention the evolutionary behavior change that caused Cuckoo parents to stop caring for their young, meaning they could put more energy into feeing and making even more eggs.
     
  12. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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    11,745
    Seems everything may have been designed by someone(s) with great power yet not omnipotence & not enough knowledge & little wisdom or compassion.
    Maybe our universe is some school student's science experiment.

    <>
     
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  13. Michael 345 Valued Senior Member

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    2,738
    Pre School perhaps

    If a kid came to me with a design idea for the male and female body as they currently exist I would take the paper and ask them to go away and try again

    Later at coffee time in the afternoon I would show the paper to the other teachers so we could all have a good laugh

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  14. birch Valued Senior Member

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    that would make sense if children were the only assholes but adults can be the same. so, not necessarily. take a look around today and at history, are children causing all the problems? there is your answer to that speculation.
     
  15. Ted Grant II Registered Senior Member

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    142
    I've just thought of a better example of intelligent design.

    God is composed of three persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. God can do anything (except he can't create a weight too heavy for him to lift).
    You can't see his face, although, oddly, you can see his backside.
    He is infinitely large, but doesn't exclude the existence of other things.
    He doesn't know what time it is, but created the universe in 6 days and only needed one day to recover.
    He loves us, but wants to punish us for a crime committed 6000 years ago by two naked teenagers.
    Because he loves us, but demands that somebody must be punished, he punished his innocent son (!).
    He created a bad guy and gave him magic powers, but soon the bad guy will be thrown down a bottomless pit.
    He gave us free will, because he didn't want us to be robots and that's why we tend to be naughty.
    After he gets rid of the bad guy, we won't be naughty any more and everyone will be happy, eating potatoes and fruit, but no meat.
    Even though we won't be naughty anymore, we will still have free will to choose anything, but all good stuff (hint to God for next design idea).

    Obviously, God, being a rather complicated being, couldn't have just happened randomly and in any case, nothing comes from nothing.
    He must have been designed and manufactured by a superior being who had the appropriate tools, material and skill.
     
  16. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Fallacious logic: begging the question: "providing what is essentially the conclusion of the argument as a premise"

    In order to make your case that there is an intelligent designer, you start by posting the existence of - and then describing the properties of - an intelligent designer.
     
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  17. birch Valued Senior Member

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    okay, this is comedy, right? a complicated being? superior? that's just plain ol' nuts. think nero or caligula. he created them crazies, probably in his own exact image. sane and good people weren't created in god's image so we are not favored, just prisoners here. both luckily and unluckily for us. yes, a conundrum and a paradox, just like this insane shithole we exist in.
     
  18. birch Valued Senior Member

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    even conceptually, people confuse the idea of a creator with the unquestioned assumption of superiority. that is a mistake. just because something may have the power to create, is no reflection on superiority. it only reflects the power to create. if your thoughts are a creation, that does not necessarily mean you are superior to your creation. your vision and creativity may be fuked up. that's like saying all managers and bosses are good at what they do. at least on our level, we can evaluate and fire the person but when it comes to something beyond our control, we can't do real quality control except work with it. still, that doesn't mean it's superior as in better. it just is and we can't decide because we are trapped inside of it.
     
  19. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    5,751
    If an entity can create heaven and firmament, light and life, from nothing, that would be a pretty good litmus test of superiority for me.

    (Of course, this is a semantic discussion - revolving entirely around our personal definitions of 'superior'.)
     
  20. birch Valued Senior Member

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    3,454
    why? what makes you assume that it was hard for the creator? what makes you think just because it can, it's superior?

    is a retarded hillbilly superior to an ant just because it can capture it or decide it's fate? it all depends on what you identify as superior.

    this also has to do with whether, hypothetically if those elements existed before the existence of the universe and whether this universe was intentional or an accident. we also don't know if there are other universes and what properties they may have. we also don't know if this universe could be a malformed one or imperfect compared to the original etc if there was one. just as we make mistakes, we don't know if a creator can also. we don't know if it's perfect. i don't see a bigger or greater being as necessarily superior. i think with greater power, comes greater responsibility and if there is no reason to have accountability or responsiblity and that's harder to do so how is it superior? bigger, more powerful perhaps but superior is different. it just is and does what it does.

    the issue lies with whether this universe was a creation in the first place as well. maybe it was an oops.

    besides that, if an omnipotent god can really create anything it wants and it created this, i wouldn't call it superior when we have the brains and awareness to find fault with it and conceptually think of better which means either the creator is limited as well in what it can do just like us or it's not as 'superior' in the total sense of the word, is it? and considering we don't have the tools to implement all these improvements isn't even our fault as the creator did not provide for it. for instance, the speed of light threshhold which makes it difficult to travel vast distances. one could say, that' doesn't mean a creator is not superior but really it does indicate a fixed and limited framework to work with. if your boss wasn't providing you with the tools necessary for your better ideas, they aren't as omnipotent or as superior as one that could.

    but like you say, it all depends on what you consider superior.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2017
  21. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    5,751
    I don't assume it's hard for the creator; I assume it's easy - certainly easier for the creator than it is for me.

    That is one definition of superior.
    If you can lift 50 more pounds than I can, then you are, at least in one way, superior to me.

    While I bristle at the slur, yes the hillbilly is superior. He can control the ant in far more ways than the ant can control him.

    Yes it does.

    Well, it doesn't really matter how you or I would judge it.

    An ant might not like us transporting its queen to a new location, but we know, being superior, that its colony will not survive when the floodwaters rise. Ultimately, we have a bigger picture; the ant is in no position to judge.

    Yup.
     
  22. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    5,859
    Oh you need to talk to Eugene Schubert! He'll put you straight in no time.
     
  23. birch Valued Senior Member

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    i'll give you this: it can't be judged if this place was created with not us in mind but the fact life does exist here makes it debatable as to it's intelligent design and therefore superiority.

    actually, you are incorrect. the hillbilly is just bigger technically and in that way superior. but considering it's larger brainmass and power, it's inferior to the ant by having degenerate inclinations and using his abilities to just torture an ant. an idiot with more power, not superior. after all, his claim to fame maybe a six-pack and a couch potato his entire life.

    think about it. if that analogy is still superior to you, then you are admitting 'superiority' doesn't necessarily equate to 'better', now does it?

    is trump superior to you? is he more intelligent than you? is he a better person than you? better looking than you? a better husband/father/son/friend than you? better dresser? better ethically? better athletically? better at chess? better cook? better ad infinitum? even though he has way more power than you and nuclear launch codes? lmao.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2017

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