is anti-vaxer (covid19)propoganda about SAR'S CoV-2 true or false ?

Discussion in 'Biology & Genetics' started by RainbowSingularity, Mar 27, 2021.

  1. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,835
    https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-56536390
    this is a science thread not an ethics or moral or religious debate

    lets talk about the science
    all claims must be backed up with links

    discuss your opinion about the scientific biological & genetic & immunological factual(ness) of the anti-vaxers propaganda

    where is it coming from on a science level
    is it related to real science
    if so where
    is there any truth in what they are claiming ?

    can we examine the science facts and separate them from the science lies

    and then discuss what validity they have on a science level directly in a science virology/immunology/biology/genetics manner


     
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  3. Dennis Tate Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,154
    Here in Canada problems are being found with the AstraZeneca vaccine related to blood clotting.


    AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine not recommended for those under 55, NACI says

    https://globalnews.ca/news/7726169/astrazeneca-vaccine-safety-canada/

     
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  5. Dennis Tate Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,154
    We all knew that the vaccines were rushed so it is good that finally the numbers are coming out regarding the negative side effects.

    I am not exactly surprised that it is Europe that is publishing this data first.

    This is certainly one part of the background information that we need to know to make an informed decision regarding taking the vaccine or not, or which one to take? I personally wish to delay my taking any vaccine as long as I possibly can so that more information will come out about all of them.

    I increased my intake of vitamin C, D, zinc and MSM as I am waiting to find out more.

    "3,964 Dead 162,610 Injuries: European Database of Adverse Drug Reactions for COVID-19 “Vaccines”"

    https://www.marktaliano.net/3964-de...adverse-drug-reactions-for-covid-19-vaccines/

     
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  7. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,835
    that is now listed internationally and globally as fake news

    here is a question around your post

    why would a younger person have a higher risk of blood clotting than an older person ?

    please show me your logic that goes with this (if you have any)

    can you post something please ?
    a link to some numbers coming out

    which vaccine ?
    there are quite a few different ones to choose from

    the person you are quoting says this

    "about me" who i am Mark TalianoAuthor, Voices from Syria
    =====
    "Our governments support al Qaeda, ISIS and their affiliates. Our governments willfully destroy countries, create chaos, sectarianism and commit mass murder so they can control, loot, and plunder prey countries. I oppose this. Define me by my opposition to this and I won’t object.
    Our governments no longer represent decent people. How could they? Our governments and their agencies demonstrate time and again that they are vassals to NATO and to globalizing trajectories that are anti-Life, anti-democracy, anti-you and me. Define me in my opposition to NATO and to the dictatorship of publicly bailed-out “neoliberalism” and I won’t object."



    https://www.marktaliano.net/about-mark/

    Mark Taliano – Author, Voices from Syria

    looks to me like your source for science on vaccine medical evidenceis a Syrian middle class anarchist anti-vaxer
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2021
    Dennis Tate likes this.
  8. Hercules Rockefeller Beatings will continue until morale improves. Moderator

    Messages:
    2,807
    Yes, they were rushed. But people with agendas and/or a lack of scientific understanding use the word “rushed” to imply that corners were cut, steps were skipped and inappropriate approvals were granted. Phase 3 trials and subsequent regulatory approval was the fastest ever for a new vaccine. This occurred because countless teams of dedicated scientists put their lives on hold and worked in shifts, 24/7 for 12 months. I know this because I have a number of professional colleagues in the pharmaceutical regulatory approval area, including a project manager in Op Warp Speed. The full regulatory approval process was applied to the SARS-CoV-2 vaccines. No steps were skipped.

    The only difference with these vaccines was that the phase 3 trials focussed only on their ability to prevent serious COVID-19, rather than their ability to prevent both COVID-19 as well as SARS-CoV-2 infection. This was dictated by the seriousness of the pandemic emergency and the need for rapid vaccine development. Fortunately, now that ~150 million+ vaccinations have occurred worldwide, the data coming in is strongly indicating that the vaccines are also providing excellent protection from infection in the first place. That is terrific news.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!




    There is currently no peer reviewed statistically significant scientific analyses that indicate the vaccines cause blood clots or stroke or any other serious side effects other than 1-2 days of elevated temperature and muscle ache. None. Zero. If there is and I have missed them, please provide the journal references. (I’m talking about scientific analysis and epidemiology, not a media report. Not speculation. Not private journalism.) Your link is not scientific analysis – it’s a clearly biased presentation from “contributing writers” of unverifiable aggregated data that has not undergone statistical or epidemiological analysis.

    There simply has not been enough time to properly analyze the data coming in from mass vaccination programs. Decisions by Germany and Canada to temporarily postpone AstraZeneca vaccinations for specific age groups is a purely precautionary (and political) measure by risk-averse governments. Germany has observed 31 cases of a type of rare blood clot among the nearly 2.7 million people vaccinated. That’s 0.001%. But if you look up the normal incidence of thrombocytopenia, low and behold, it’s 0.005% or higher! (The AstraZeneca vax might be protective for blood clots!) All the supposed serious side effects of COVID vaccines can be entirely explained by normal stochastic health outcomes. In other words, the vaccine has nothing to do with them; those things are guaranteed to occur naturally when you look of sample sizes of millions of people.
     
  9. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,835
    additionally a great way to prevent panic media being created around vaccine distribution and priority vaccination groups & queues
    Germany has a tendency to err on protection & civil freedoms
    Canada is expected to compete on a social liberty and peoples rights level to social services and political openness to the EU
    so on a strategic level its not surprising.
    specially if it gives them some time delay leverage to look at more networking for access logistically.
    both Canada and Germany like France must be seen to be doing the right thing
    as a part of their cultural identity, unlike many other country's cultures.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


    Dennis appears to be questionably going over the line(skateboarding backwards and forth over it deliberately or deliberately sitting just over it?) posting fake science
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Dennis, remember this is a science web site
    with specific areas for posting alternate theory's and pseudo-science & conspiracy's

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    additionally
    on a legal issue

    Mark Italiano is making a legal false claim
    that the EU web site has studys on covid vaccine side effects
    and then lists their site
    (dead end link to not link to a study

    instead
    to the front page, so people wont be able to find anything and just believe he is being honest when he is not)


    i have observed this tactic many times by scammers


    https://www.marktaliano.net/3964-de...adverse-drug-reactions-for-covid-19-vaccines/

    http://www.adrreports.eu/en/search.html#


    done by
    Contributing Writers
    -
    March 25, 2021

    By Brian Shilhavy
    Global Research, March 25, 2021
    posted on web site
    Mark Taliano – Author, Voices from Syria


     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2021
  10. Dennis Tate Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,154

    Perhaps the question that is actually being asked is..........
    in actuality........... why would somebody younger than 55 even take a vaccine where the incidence of death in
    anybody younger than fifty five is very, very extremely LOW???????????

    In order for COVID 19 to take the life of somebody younger than fifty five a number of other factors seem to be needed:
    1. for somebody younger than fifty five to die of Covid 19 they need to be severely deficient in vitamin D
    2. for somebody younger than fifty five to die of Covid 19 they need to be severely deficient in zinc
    3. for somebody younger than fifty five to die of Covid 19 they need to have a terribly suppressed immune system.....
    perhaps lung disease, COPD or something somewhat similar.


    If you are willing to view this news clip you will hear a dad ask why his daughter thirty nine...... even took a vaccine that she really would be unlikely to have needed to make her relatively safe in the event that she got Covid 19. There were actually four similar fatalities in the State of Utah that has people asking questions.

    https://kutv.com/news/local/utah-wo...Fob8f-0Y5-SnC0Qvt12wrd43jfZyi891fmbECdx3ZP7hw
     
  11. Dennis Tate Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,154


    Thank you for this encouraging analysis of what happened.

    I believe that there are several other complicating factors involved as well:


    https://www.hrsa.gov/vaccine-compensation/about/index.html

    About the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program


    .... and....
    as can be seen in the conflict taking place right now in Israel.....
    there is a segment of the populations of the wealthiest nations who
    rather like the idea of a Green Passport?????

    A segment of the population of Israel seem to believe that the benefits to some
    variation of a "Green Passport" outweigh the negatives.
     
  12. Dennis Tate Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,154
    I just saw a meme that impresses me as probably being accurate......
    am I wrong?

    Are these statistics incorrect?


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    I will give you text for this just in case you can't see the image"
    "CORONAVIRUS SURVIVAL RATES
    0-19 YRS OLD 99.997 %

    20 - 49 YRS OLD
    99.98%

    50-69 YRS OLD
    99.5%

    70+ YRS OLD
    94.6 %
     
  13. Hercules Rockefeller Beatings will continue until morale improves. Moderator

    Messages:
    2,807
    So, you’re happy to spread the virus to older age groups as long as it doesn’t affect you? Older people dying is okay as long as you suffer nothing more than a cold?

    Wow, what humanitarian you are.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    The worldwide mortality rate for COVID-19 is ~2%. That makes it 20x more deadly than seasonal flu and is on par with smallpox. With its very high transmissibility and mutational capacity, SARS-CoV-2 will continue to kill millions unless everyone is vaccinated.
     
    Dennis Tate likes this.
  14. Dennis Tate Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,154

    That is an impressive line of argument..... certainly..... but as you can guess there is far more to the issue.
    1. I do wear the mask and I am not at this time in a position where I have to be less than ten feet away from any seniors......... hardly ever with the exception of the grocery store.

    2. Because I have boosted my immune system greatly since 1999 I might even be so resistant to the Covid 19 virus that I do not become symptomatic at all, (and it is rare to be able to spread a virus that has not given me at least several symptoms such as sore throat, headaches or stomach ache)?? Last July I did get a Covid 19 test due to my simply having a sore throat. So my plan is to have the test again if I become at all symptomatic.
     
  15. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    20,359
    Nope. Not accurate, since our testing program is so poor that we don't know for sure 1) how many people have a SARS-CoV-2 infection and 2) how many people have really died of COVID-19. They are estimates.
    A few reasons.

    1) Some people care about other people, not just themselves - and getting everyone vaccinated is our best defense against COVID.
    2) Many side effects ("COVID long termers") are pretty miserable, even if you survive. Imagine being on oxygen for the rest of your life, for example.

    Incorrect. You can spread even when you are not symptomatic.
     
  16. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,835
    ?
    so you are saying people who die from covid must have pre existing terminal conditions
    yet those who die after taking a vaccination are killed outright by the vaccine ?

    im not sure i understand your type of science
    what type of science is that ?

    this statement by you clearly shows you do not understand the basic science

    as Billvon says

    how can you supposedly know of 1 single death out of millions of people
    who died after getting a vaccination
    but you cant grasp the critical basic science of immunological transmission basic function ?

    where are you getting your science from ? it's simply wrong !
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    and ... it is not like its an arguable difference in advanced theory toward a margin concept
    its outright completely wrong and way off base
    soo wrong that it is opposed to the entire basic nature of medical science


    the secret cult religion
    belief that if you concentrate on lust for something material, then the laws of physics will change and make your lust dreams come true.


    i imagine vitamin & mineral sales must be up in a few places
    you post like your selling them and testing this message board to build your own sales technique for some other market where your selling them.

    is that what your doing ?
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    that is inherently dishonest for medical science.
    morally it is hypocritical because your not giving science any equal ability
    not to mention you clearly show you do not understand the basic principals of biology, immunology virology & basic medical statistical analysis.

    discussion is 1 thing
    attempting to exploit others by spreading miss information to make personal profit against the death of people is a completely different thing
    you cant blame vaccines as being morally questionable when you personally show you have not given basic science an equal footing to logic & equal moral evaluation

    1 death of a women after vaccine
    out weighs how many deaths from covid ?
    in your opinion
    where is the provable common method ?
    your showing total bias on a un-scientific method, which is fine if your preaching religion.
    but this is science
    hard science

    where is the science fact that you are holding up and measuring each by equally ?
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2021
  17. KUMAR5 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    981
    Btw, just for curicity,

    Are development and long existance of antibodies produced either due to natural Covid infection or by
    Covid vaccine, being bit new and odd substance to body, can also be bit pathological or give side effects
    in anyway? Can it be related to Gammapathy? Can such antibodies change readings of Protein Electrophoresis and Immunofixation electrophoresis tests since IgM and IgG are part of it as per following quote.

    Further we may also need to grill long covid which may contain two types of manifestations. 1. By actual injury
    to body parts/system 2. By development and long existing of antibodies. Origional idea of vaccination, I think was creating
    Immunological memory induced immune response where antibodies production was just short term event. But dependence
    on soley on long existing anti bodies? Need to be checked.

     
  18. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,835
    oncology hematology is quite advanced
    it sits in fringe science area as cutting edge R&D which is constantly being developed
    as an ongoing science

    discussing vaccine hematology function on a fringe immunalogical variance to blood production mutation constructs
    like myeloid leukemia for example only !

    you really need to know your science to participate

    most fake media about science uses half truths and incorrect parts of other aspects woven together

    testing science as a microbiology science into chemistry & micro biology
    is very very advanced

    nothing you can openly discuss with the average person

    assigning any concept of sudden immunological over load
    toward a vaccine induced asymptomatic pre existing cancer condition ?

    sounds almost like deliberate scare tactics

    i will do some reading and get back to you

    if your lucky someone like Hercules may post a response to your question
    it is beyond my current understanding




     
  19. KUMAR5 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    981
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2021
  20. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,835
    long covid after the vaccine ?
    how long after the vaccine ?
    post a link

    are you referring to immunological chronic illnesses ?

    which ones ?
     

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