Is consciousness to be found in quantum processes in microtubules?

Discussion in 'Pseudoscience' started by Write4U, Sep 8, 2018.

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  1. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Now transport the electricity through a variable potentiometer (light dimmer). Would you say that the potentiometer is processing electrical data? Such as the light flashes produced by cuttlefish.

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    Instead of sliders, microtubules use growth and shortening, also known as "dynamic instability", to regulate their data-transport abilities. That function did not evolve by accident. It has a practical purpose.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2022
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  3. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Maybe.

    There's an input and an output, and the output depends on the state of the potentiometer, so in some crude sense you could call that data processing, I suppose. The "smarts" of it are outside the system, though. The person sliding the slider determines the output. The potentiometer itself doesn't make any decisions.
     
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  5. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Microtubules do!!!!!!! Read the links!!!!
     
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  7. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    What decisions do they make, and how do they make them?

    A one-paragraph summary will do, for starters.
     
  8. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Electro-chemical action potentials, just like the brain does.
     
  9. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Okay.

    I'm not that interested in getting bogged down in what it means to make a decision.

    At one level, you could talk about any system that is capable of responding differently in response to variation in some input condition as "making a decision?" In that low-level sense, a thermostat makes a "decision" to turn on the heater when it senses that the temperature is lower than a set value.

    Are you going to argue, then, that a thermostat is "conscious"?

    The "decision making" of an individual neuron is on a similar level, I think. The neuron receives (or doesn't receive) electrical signals from elsewhere. If those signals add up to more than certain threshold, the neuron fires; otherwise it doesn't. Is this consciousness, then? I don't think so.

    The "electro-chemical action potentials" you describe are exactly this: a neuron fires or it doesn't, in response to a stimulus. Is this consciousness, then?

    The light in my bedroom goes on when I flick the light switch. Did the light switch make a decision to turn the light on? Did the light decide to turn itself on? Is the switch, or the light, conscious?
     
  10. C C Consular Corps - "the backbone of diplomacy" Valued Senior Member

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    Given the age of people in here, I hope the last month and a half of not posting anything about microtubules means a dearth of news about the subject. Or maybe there's a thread churning away about it on some other forum, that you're embroiled in.
     
  11. origin Heading towards oblivion Valued Senior Member

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    As long as it isn't here, I'm OK with it... I do have a bit of sympathy for the other forum though.
     
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  12. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Light dimmers do not use potentiometers for obvious reasons. They use phase control.
    All functions evolve by accident. Whether they are retained is based on their practicality.
     
  13. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    I wonder why this should be a "hoped for" condition?

    I am sorry to disappoint you, but there is a plethora of new information and pertinent discoveries in the field of research on microtubules and related filaments.

    For a moment there I hoped for an actual interest in the subject, but alas, even as I am not on line there seem to be a need for spreading ad hominem behind my back. So sad.

    p.s. My absence was for an entirely different motive. (strike 2)
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2023
  14. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Oh, the superior mind speaks of the minor annoyances of life on the internet. (strike 3)
     
  15. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Really?
    Everything You Need to Know About Variable Resistor Function
    https://www.linquip.com/blog/variable-resistor-function/#

    and variable resistors are potentiometers;

    POTENTIOMETER: A VARIABLE RESISTOR
    https://42electronics.com/blogs/learn-more/potentiometer-a-variable-resistor

    and all that functions on the basis of mathematical "differential equations".

    Artificial variable resistors must be manipulated by persons. Natural variable resistors, such as dynamic microtubules, change their differential potentials by rapid growth or reduction, based on chemical messages. In microtubules it is called "dynamic instability"
    more...https://www.cell.com/current-biology/pdf/S0960-9822(06)01771-4.pdf
    True, it was sloppy wording on my part. I should have written; That function did not evolve by accident, it is extant due to natural selection of a functional advantage. The second part of that sentence was correct, no?
    No, it is "sensitive" to the existing variable "differential equations", a quasi-intelligent function.

    In biological systems, cells have the ability to communicate with each other (inter-cellular communication), which can produce "quorum sensing" and a coordinated response via the simultaneous distribution of action-potentials troughout the system.

    Quorum sensing is a proto-conscious electro-chemical inter-cellular data processing function and allows "heliotropism" for photosynthesis in flowers, coordinated "virulence" in bacteria, waggle dance for "locating" food in bees.
    Quorum sensing itself does not need a neural network. It is the direct communication between cells that triggers a sensory response that can also be transmitted transmitted to the brain via the neural network and experienced by the brain as a physical action.

    IMO, this is the stage of proto-consciousness that evolved into pure experiential brain function as processed by the billions of microtubules and the trillions of synaptic response actions and data comparing against stored memories.

    It is a clear evolutionary process of increased sophistication in sensory response processes, starting with purely chemical interactions, to intermediate stage from purely electro-chemical response of individual objects to communal cellular response in biological organisms, to self-aware experiential response processes in the brain.

    This process started perhaps 600,000 years after the formation of earth, and was later facilitated by the self-assembly of microtubules and the ability for variable date transmission potentials in Eukaryotic organisms, but took several billion of years to evolve into most extant organisms and most likely in human ability for abstract thought processes by way of a major genetic mutation such as the fusion of 2 ancestral chromosomes, yielding an increased growth and complex folding of the brain and a resulting ability to process complex relational data values.

    The demarcation point of the human split being the fusion of 2 ancestral chromosomes into a single larger chromosome in humans, causing only humans to carry 23 pr chromosomes whereas all other apes have 24 pr chromosomes
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2023
  16. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    OK, back to the science of microtubules.

    The role of microtubules in mitochondrial dynamics
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4801864/#

    I guess I must qualify my focus on microtubules as including related filaments and mitochondria. Obviously, it is a systemic network that acts as the substrate which generates the EM fields that the brain experiences as thoughts

    much more to come!
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2023
  17. origin Heading towards oblivion Valued Senior Member

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    Oh crap, he came back. Oh well, his absence was nice while it lasted...
     
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  18. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Thinking must be really hard work for you, origin. You are completely ignorant of a whole new scientific field of inquiry and refuse to even look. What does that tell us of your mindset? It ain't scientific, that's for sure.

    With your superior mind, what are you even doing, dwelling in the lowly pseudo-science
    section?
    A curious juxtaposition. I'll have to give that some thought.
    OK, strike 4! You're out!!!!

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    Last edited: Jan 5, 2023
  19. C C Consular Corps - "the backbone of diplomacy" Valued Senior Member

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    Glad you're in good heath then, which is still more important than microtubule news (even if shortage of such wasn't the cause of absence). Have no idea what else could be construed meaning-wise with respect to an opener like: "Given the age of people in here..."
    _
     
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  20. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Very sympathetic of you.
    And you gave this a "like"??? (strike 5) Your team is losing badly!
     
  21. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    I am seriously beginning to regret wasting hundreds of hours of my time researching and posting new developments in an exciting new field of research on the emergence of cellular communication and the eventual evolution of sensory consciousness.

    What is the expression? "Cast your pearls before the swine" ?
    Cast your pearls before swine - Idioms by The Free Dictionary
     
  22. origin Heading towards oblivion Valued Senior Member

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    Bye, silly person...
     
  23. origin Heading towards oblivion Valued Senior Member

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    We all regret your efforts...
     
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