Is consciousness to be found in quantum processes in microtubules?

Discussion in 'Pseudoscience' started by Write4U, Sep 8, 2018.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    Messages:
    39,426
    Why is Tegmark etc. in the microtubules thread?

    Can't you stay on topic?
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. Write4U Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    20,080
    I see no Tegmark. I see Ricky Gervais and Stephen Colbert talking about the difference between religion and mathematics.
     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. Pinball1970 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,044
    Can you answer questions about Tegmark in the Tegmark thread?

    I was created Just4U
     
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. Write4U Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    20,080
    Thanks.
     
  8. Write4U Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    20,080
    A little update on microtubules and how they form.

    Local Nucleation of Microtubule Bundles through Tubulin Concentration into a Condensed Tau Phase

    Summary


    Graphical Abstract

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!


    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S221112471731149X
     
  9. Write4U Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    20,080
    To keep up with Tegmark's perspective on consciousness, her is an article written directly by Stuart Hameroff.

    Consciousness is the collapse of the wave function

    Quantum mechanics and the organic light of consciousness

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!


    Stuart Hameroff
    | Anesthesiologist and Quantum Consciousness Theorist and Researcher. Professor Emeritus at The Department of Anesthesiology and Center for Consciousness Studies, The University of Arizona, Tucson, Arizona.

    Consciousness defines our existence. It is, in a sense, all we really have, all we really are, The nature of consciousness has been pondered in many ways, in many cultures, for many years. But we still can’t quite fathom it.
    Organic light per se isn’t consciousness. But organic light could be the interface between the brain and conscious processes in the fine scale structure of the universe.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    Figure 1. A scale-invariant hierarchy extending downward from a cortical pyramidal neuron (left) into microtubules, tubulin dipoles, organic ring dipoles and spacetime geometry curvatures. Self-similar dynamics recur every three orders of magnitude.
     
  10. Write4U Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    20,080
    This is a very interesting perspective.
     
  11. Write4U Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    20,080
    The more I learn about MT, the greater the wonderous potentials contained in this little dipolar coil. Apparently it has no limits in processing information over long distances as well by inter- and intra- cellular communication.

    The entire neural/cellular network, masterminded by the self-referential control mechanism in the brain, appears to sort and amplify electro-chemical information, i.e. vision, hearing, etc. and the manufacturing of (re-)“action potentials” that allow us to “act”.

    This is one of the most comprehensive articles on the body's neural network and how it regulates every "calculation" the body must make to maintain itself in balance relative to its environment. It can take its place in the library among other good science literature.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!


    Description
    Neural connections concept. Human body neurology, nervous system. 3D illustrationNeural connections concept. Human body neurology, nervous system. 3D illustration Neural Connections Concept Human Body Neurology Nervous System 3d Illustration Stock Photo - Download Image Now - iStock

    Microtubule-Based Transport and the Distribution, Tethering, and Organization of Organelles - PMC

    The human biome is a self-referential dynamic local field in the spacetime fabric. Are we the multiverse ? That would be ironic.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2023
  12. Write4U Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    20,080
    I think this is a worthy addition to the subject.


    (forgive the interference, it's annoying).
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2023
  13. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    Messages:
    39,426
    No limits at all, eh?

    These microtubules of yours are very Godlike.
    Yes. Our nervous system and brain work electrically.
    A human biome not a field.

    The rest is the usual word salad from you. Just words strung together meaninglessly.

    You don't really know what you meant by "biome" there (or perhaps what that word means at all), do you?
    In what sense is the biome self-referential? You don't know, and you don't say.

    The word "dynamic" is just pointless filler.
    So too, probably, is "local". What human biome would not be "local"? What locality did you have in mind? You don't know, and you don't say.
    And "spacetime fabric" is just a fancy sciency-sounding word whose meaning you don't understand.

    Tell me, Write4U: why would it be ironic? Please explain the ironic aspects of it to me.
     
  14. Write4U Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    20,080
  15. Write4U Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    20,080
    Back to MT

    We already know that migrating birds use microtubules to read the earth's magnetic field for navigation.
    I believe this is an additional important ability of microtubules. Ability to "read' gravitational topology.

    Microtubule self-organization is gravity-dependent
    Abstract
    more... https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.140029597#
     
  16. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    Messages:
    39,426
    You just showed that the human biome is not a local field. Don't you realise? Moreover, you've confirmed that you didn't understand the term "local field" when you tried to apply it.
     
  17. Write4U Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    20,080
    That depends on the set of "relational values" within the field. In that sense the human organism is a local field in that it has a more or less independent existence.

    Can you tell me what is wrong with this about "A set of elements such that addition and multiplication are commutative and associative and multiplication is distributive over addition and there are two elements 0 and 1" ?

    If that is the way it works, where is the problem?

    I find it remarkable that the Fibonacci sequence begins with a zer0 !
    Fractal Nature | Atmos

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!


    examples of one "guiding principle" of growth.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    and our human symbolic mathematical representation of these fundamental self-ordering principles.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!


    and IMO, it is this self-referential simplicity that makes it's complex evolutionary processes possible. In view of the incredible dynamics (a megaquantum event?) of the universe, this form of evolutionary paths and processes would seem almost inevitable over time..
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2023
  18. Write4U Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    20,080
    Returning to MT

    I like these articles. It speaks of a healthy research in neural systems

    Microtubules in cell migration

    Abstract

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!


    Figure 1
    Microtubule structure and functions
    (A) Microtubules are 25-nm diameter tubes assembled from 13 protofilaments of head-to-tail arranged heterodimers of α-tubulin and β-tubulin. Microtubules assemble primarily at their ends by addition of GTP-bound tubulin dimers that gradually hydrolyse GTP once incorporated in the lattice. The presence of a GTP-tubulin stabilises growth phases, loss of the cap results in catastrophe and the microtubule shrinks until it is rescued. (B) Overview of microtubule functions: transport tracks for minus end-directed dynein and predominantly plus end-directed kinesins, the stiffness of microtubules paired with viscosity of the cytoplasm allows microtubules to resist large compressive forces, microtubule assembly and disassembly results in pushing and pulling forces can be coupled to perform work, microtubules serve as signalling hubs by sequestering lattice-bound signalling molecules or enriching signalling complexes in the plus end complex, these are released upon depolymerisation.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6823166/#

    The MT and synaptic network functions very much like a computer, a biological computer.

    The Electrical Analogue Computer of Microtubule’s Protofilament

    https://www.hindawi.com/journals/ddns/2020/4916202/fig1/
     
  19. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    Messages:
    39,426
    Write4U:
    No, it doesn't. Nothing I wrote depends on that. "Relational values" are just something you made up. Meaningless.
    Repeating the same error, even after you were told?

    Is it just a matter of posting any old rubbish to try to keep the conversation going, with you? Are you past caring about whether you make any sense at all?
    What does that relate to? Hint: it doesn't relate at all to your silly claim that the "human biome" is a "field". You don't know what it relates to, do you, because you just grabbed your dictionary and posted the first thing you found about "field" that sounded pseudo-scientific.
    Relevance: zero!
    Your opinions on this topic don't have any rational basis, though, do they?
     
  20. Write4U Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    20,080
    Yes, sorry. That should have read "relational potentials"

    Inferring Relational Potentials in Interacting Systems
    Armand Comas-Massagué, Yilun Du, Christian Fernandez, Sandesh Ghimire, Mario Sznaier, Joshua B. Tenenbaum, Octavia Camps
    https://arxiv.org/abs/2310.14466
    No, I specifically used the term field as illustrated below.
    This a field inside the microbiome.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    On second thought, the term "community" might have been more appropriate. The gut itself is the field.
    I don't think you are qualified to judge.
     
  21. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    Messages:
    39,426
    This is ridiculous. I think it's probably past time for closing this nonsense of a thread.
     
    exchemist, Pinball1970 and origin like this.
  22. Write4U Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    20,080
    Because Tegmark proposes that consciousness is an emergent property of certain self-referential neural patterns,
    which is pertinent to the thread.

    Another example that you do not read what I quote, which defeats the purpose of the quotes. Well done!!!
     
  23. Write4U Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    20,080
    The advantage of dipolar properties in microtubules.

    Efferent and Afferent MT functions

    Control of microtubule organization and dynamics: two ends in the limelight

    https://www.nature.com/articles/nrm4084#accession-codes
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page