Is consciousness to be found in quantum processes in microtubules?

Discussion in 'Alternative Theories' started by Write4U, Sep 8, 2018.

  1. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    Complete non sequitur.

    The wave function does not collapse as a result of observation by a conscious mind, but even if it did, that would not imply, at any way whatsoever, that consciousness itself was quantised.

    As I say, such a notion would be total quantum woo.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2019
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  3. river

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    But many are of the understanding that the wave function collapse , is because of observation . By us .

    If such a notion is " quantum woo " ; then explain it in your own thinking .
     
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  5. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    To you?

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  7. river

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    Just explain it then . To your own thinking .
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2019
  8. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    That is not sufficient explanation. It's easy to say consciousness is an emergent ability. That's the easy answer.
    The hard problem is, how do they do it? Many things are sensitive, some things are aware, some things are consciously aware. All of them seem able to self organize in some way.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2019
  9. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    I understood that just rigging a camera observing the slits would affect the result.
    Does the observer or the camera collapse the wave function in the double slit experiment?
    https://physics.stackexchange.com/q...lapse-the-wave-function-in-the-double-slit-ex

    Either way there would not be a hard-wired connection. How does it work without physical connections?
     
  10. river

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    Agreed take a pride of Lions for example , how do the organise themselves in the hunt ? There is no sound communication . So where does ; how does the communication take form ?

    Elephants use low frequency sound waves communication ; but again how do a pride of Lions do their communial communication amungst themselves .
     
  11. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Natural communication wonders abound. There seems to be no natural energy source which is not used by some species in some creative way. Even in environments which are deadly to 99.9 % of all species, we can find organisms which use that environment and manage to procreate.
    Extremophiles are very strange organisms, and to a lesser extend so are Tardigrades.

    Could it be forms of "quorum sensing"? Bacteria can do that and exhibit synchronized behavior. Single celled organisms acting in concert is a pretty neat trick.

    Most termites never see the light of day. Yet they practice horticulture, build air conditioned castles and are self sufficient.
    Ants practice husbandry. They keep herds of aphids which they milk and protect. Ants are not known for protecting anything but their queen.
    Mayflies are Ephemera and live for one day. In that one day they must find a mate in order to breed. The female produces a pheromone which may reach as far as twenty miles, to be detected my a male who then will follow the scent twenty miles back to the female.
    Bees have an entirely different reproductive cycle than other species. They also practice "debate" and "quorum sensing". Inter- and intra-species communication abounds, even among non-related species.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2019
  12. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Through very simple behaviors, communicated via chemical, tactile and visual means. Really, this has been studied for decades, and we have a pretty good idea how it works. I know you won't read any outside information, but all of it's available if you do a little research.
    All life self-organizes.
     
  13. river

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    This " Quorum " sensing could very well be the answer ; yet I don't know , maybe telepathic communication perhaps .

    I remember a movie about Lion brothers in Africa or India when the British were building a railway in the late 1800's or early 1900's , can't remember the name of the movie , but a true story , I think M. Douglas was in it ; these Lions were killing many people working on the building of the railway , and hunters were brought in to kill these two male lion brothers . Perhaps you recall this movie . Fascinating movie . Anyway I'll look it up .
     
  14. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    I know you won't read anything I post so you are completely ignorant of what I know and do not know. You just cannot resist making derogatory slurs, can you?
    Did you just discover that? I seem to have mentioned something like that for a long time. I believe I even went a step further. IMO, the universe is a self-organizing object. This is expressed in the self-assembling natural patterns, also known as Platonic solids. Of course this would only be possible in a mathematical universe. No random system would be able to form predictable recurring patterns.

    Pray tell "how does consciousness self-organize"? I know microtubules do a lot of organizing of brain cells which cannot duplicate and network without them and form "consciousness".
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2019
  15. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Well then you haven't done due dilligence. Without microtubules there would be no trees. How's that?

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    https://biologydictionary.net/microtubule/

    In plants
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microtubule_organizing_center
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2019
  16. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    I am pointing out your behavior. Feel free to change it if you like.
    Ah. So your statement that bees seem to self-organize somehow seems . . . less than informative.
    And potassium does a lot of polarization of brain cells, and without it we could not form "consciousness." That does not mean that potassium is conscious, or is an irreplaceable component to consciousness.
    Another completely meaningless statement. Without carbon there would be no trees. How's that? (Answer - just as meaningless.)
     
  17. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    What I find very intriguing is the fact that bacteria have no microtubules, yet have the ability for "quorum sensing", a proto form of hive mind.? A quasi -intelligent behavior?
     
  18. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    But then, I don't post that trees have no carbon, you do........

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  19. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Nope, never claimed anything like that. You are making shit up again. That does not help your credibility.
     
  20. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    It's "meaningless".
    True, that is is the easy problem. I'm after the "hard problem";
    You are missing the difference between "packets of information", the data (values), and the "processors of information", the dynamic physical processes which translate the data into "perception" (functions which yield consciousness).
    See above.....

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    Last edited: Nov 11, 2019
  21. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    True, you posted that trees have no microtubules, and therein lies your error in fact and subsequent error in logic.
    Due dilligence......

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    Last edited: Nov 11, 2019
  22. Bells Staff Member

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    Back to this rubbish again?

    You are still to address the fact that Orch or has been falsified, and you continue to spout the same rubbish.

    Stop lying. At no time did he say that.

    Read what he actually said instead of outright lying, you troll:

     
  23. Bells Staff Member

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    Mod Note

    No he did not.

    Stop lying. This is no longer deemed accidental, nor could it be blamed on stupidity. Your lying is malicious as it is intended to alter the context and content of his post to suit your narrative.
     
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