Is consciousness to be found in quantum processes in microtubules?

That is no argument. Are you suggesting consciousness is a physical phenomenon or is it an emergent self-aware experiential emotion.

Can you sell me 3lbs of consciousness?

 

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3 physical elements (elementary values) arranged in a near infinite array of mathematical patterns.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystallization

 

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The more you know .

Consciousness is about understanding the.....without .

 

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What three physical elements ?

 

I am surprised how few people know anything about consciousness. It's a really old question humans have asked themselves and then apparently shrugged their shoulders with the expression "whatever".....

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Consciousness is about understanding the.....without .[/QUOTE] Consciousness is understanding yourself as an autonomous organism and your relationship to the environment. Consciousness always starts with survival skills. Fight or Flight.

This process starts at the cellular level with simple physical reaction to kinetic forces, but has evolved to extraordinary sensory perception and information processing, yielding a best guess (imaginary presentation) of what the senses are observing at various levels of awareness depending on the evolutionary processes imposed by various habitats.

 

And the Evolution of the Nervous System .

 

Absolutely.
It's just that the functional parts of the Nervous (neural) system are the microtubules. Microtubules are like the copper wires in an electrical system, the actual transportation highways of electricity. Without microtubules there is no nervous (neural) system and information processing.

When people say "consciousness emerges from our neural system" they already (unwittingly) acknowledge the role of microtubules even if they have never heard the term microtubule in relation to neurons.

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Microtubule-mediated axonal transport. Axonal microtubules are specialised in transmitting vesicles and other cargo via molecular motors. Microtubule organisation and modulation by MAPs (such as tau) also aids transport. Kinesin (left red) performs anterograde transport to axonal terminals. Dynein (right yellow) moves retrogradely towards the cell body. Fast and slow axonal transports drive organelles, vesicles and proteins along the axon. A tight balance of anterograde, bidirectional and retrograde transport is required to avoid either accumulation or depletion of cellular components [40]

https://www.researchgate.net/figure...icrotubules-are-specialised-in_fig2_307898410

Microtubule control of functional architecture in neurons
Highlights;

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0959438818302745

 

continued.......

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Figure 1. Microtubules carry out diverse roles within neurons.
Microtubules regulate cargo trafficking

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0959438818302745

 

Sorry, that should have read "fundamental elements" instead of "physical".

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How bosons fit with other classes of sub atomic particles, hadrons and fermions.

We should add the four fundamental forces. The combination of these fundamental constituents of spacetime interact to form "matter".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_interaction

At Planck scale the universe is not a collection of particles. It is a collection of unobservable fields, which interact and combine to form specific sub-atomic patterns which in turn produce atomic patterns which produce observable matter, with specific measurable potentials, such as atomic mass.

p.s. the Higgs Field is proof. It is an unobservable condition, but we were able to mathematically predict the required environmental conditions to produce a Higgs boson from that field. Abra Cadabra!

Microtubules may well have distinct advantage in the race for consciousness, merely by the most fundamental experience of "touch". All the sensory information during an organism's lifetime is touched and experientially processed by microtubules. Evolution may well have provided MT an amplification ability of the neural network signals to the brain, and when there is sufficient informational stimulation the brain says "aaauchhhh", actually a macro-quantum event of emergent self-awareness!?

Did I just describe ORCH OR ?

 

QUOTE

This article has multiple issues. Please help improve it or discuss these issues on the talk page. (Learn how and when to remove these template messages)
This article needs attention from an expert in Psychology, Philosophy, Computer science or Cognitive science.(February 2010)"

UNQUOTE

In other words, it's cock.

 

No.

 

No it isn't. It has issues, but that does not invalidate the various definitions the existing definitions that apparently are agreed on.

Are you suggesting that all science which has "issues" is not valid? Doesn't that depend on the issues? Newton's gravity has "issues" . Does that invalidate his theory?

The term "information" has several definitions, depending on context in psychology, or computer sciences, or cognitive science. Maybe there are several more applicable definitions. How can you tell what is needed?

 

Orchestrated Objective Reduction? I think I touched the on thrust of the hypothesis, but it does not need to be that. As long as we can establish that the study of microtubules may give us "hard answers" to the "hard questions", that would be sufficient to warrant further study.

Expression like "no", and "poppy-cock" are in no way constructive or offer "guidance". Can you be more specific? Kinda like being scientific for a change?

 

Continuing with evidence.

Bundles of Brain Microtubules Generate Electrical Oscillations

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-30453-2

 

It's cock. For a start, "change" is not a synonym for "processing".

And then, if you start claiming that all physical events and processes "process information", you have destroyed any significance in the term. It becomes meaningless. So, sure microtubules, by that definition, "process information", if you want. But so does everything else. So when you claim that microtubules "process information" you might as well save your breath because you have said nothing interesting or remarkable.

So, as a definition, it is trivial and useless.

Britannica, on the the other hand, has a non-trivial definition:
" Information processing , the acquisition, recording, organization, retrieval, display, and dissemination of information."
This is followed by a long and informative article on the subject: https://www.britannica.com/technology/information-processing#ref61650

 

Is there kinda like any point in offering you kinda constructive criticism, like? Kinda.

Unlike Orch-OR, what you wrote is not a hypothesis, but a series of random, Brain-of-Pooh musings, culminating in a short burst of quantum woo. Kinda. Like.

 

Yes, kinda like the mathematical process of evolution of the universe and everything in it. The information contained in patterns evolving into more complex patterns. Things, collections of information, have values. All values are processed via mathematical functions. In the the end it is all information. Tegmark proposes Mathematics. Penrose proposes Consciousness begins at quantum. Bohm hypothesized a "Wholeness" (Holonomic brain theory)

Holonomic brain theory

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holonomic_brain_theory

It all deals with information (relative values, being processed via invariable mathematical functions inherent in the geometry of a spacetime manifold.

If you can describe it, that means you are describing from information you have gathered and nothing else. All things have atomic patterns, all atomic patterns have values, the information of those values is processed via mathematical functions. What is the dispute?

 

Reporting as more off-topic preaching of a personal religion.

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QUOTE="exchemist, post: 3637329, member: 268413"]It's cock. For a start, "change" is not a synonym for "processing".[/QUOTE] Remember "compartmentalization"?

CHANGE IS A PROCESS by Tim Creasey

https://blog.prosci.com/change-is-a-process

Reporting as false and off-topic ad hominem. Stop interrupting the conversation with off-topic attempts at humor. This thread is not about religion Dave. Please stay with the science or (at minimum) as exchemist reminds me, the English language, which I hope the above will clear up, so that we can return to the three main topic of this thread, you know; "Consciousness", "Quantum Mechanics", and "Microtubules" .Thank you.

 

God, you must be desperate, trawling the internet to find something that seems to say "change" and "processing" are synonyms. But actually even what you have found does not say that.

This is about organisational change, in a business. And what he says, about organisational change, is "Change occurs as a process, not as an event. Organizational change does not happen instantaneously because there was an announcement, a kickoff meeting or even a go-live date. Individuals do not change simply because they received an email or attended a training program."

Completely irrelevant to the subject of this thread, as so much that you have posted has also been.

This inability either to distinguish relevance from irrelevance, or to understand the meaning of words, looks increasingly like mental illness.