Is consciousness to be found in quantum processes in microtubules?

In my fifteen years on SciFo, this is the most disgusting thing I have seen - and that includes the racist skinheads.

Write4U mocks a horribly murdered man for his own petty ego.

I'm more convinced than ever Write4U is a bot that knows nothing of the meaning of human words.

 

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I know, but he mentioned the M in the bit I watched so I sorta.....

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Yes ,I think we deserve an apology and explanation from Write4U

 

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Yes understood. Anyway, it has nothing to do with consciousness, which, once upon a time (

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) , was what this thread was supposed to have been exploring.

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Thank you for your contribution....

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DNA is not a dynamic pattern. It is hardwired chemical information that is copied by microtubules during mitosis. DNA only changes when mixed with the mate's DNA or by mutation, both becoming transcribed by MT, but not by storing sensory information.

But they do! MT are the ONLY communicative property a cell is imbued with. Every dendrite that is connected to the neural network is made from "shielded" microtubules (axons).

The point is that we are not talking about what keeps the body alive. Obviously all of our organs plus the 90% bacteria that convert chemicals for our benefit, keep us alive, else we would not possess them. None of that is being disputed.

But the argument that I need a cell nucleus in order to remember what I had for breakfast is problematic, IMO.

OTOH, we know that microtubules are the main processor and transport mechanism of dynamic sensory information. We know that MT pyramids store sensory information in dynamic "memory" mudules, which have absolutely nothing to do with DNA or RNA hardwired chemical

We know that information itself has no connection to "consciousness", the ability to process dynamic sensory information as it is experienced. For that you need MT. Everything else is "information" being processed and directed to their proper destinations. The distribution network responsible for this is the MT and micro-fibrils, which makes it the natural candidate for being the platform in an emergent conscious experience of the sensory information being processed.

Roles of Cell Organelles in Mitosis
By Dr. Mary Dowd, Updated July 30, 2019

Organelles Involved in Cell Division

https://sciencing.com/roles-cell-organelles-mitosis-22199.html

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soma_(biology)#/media/File:Neuron_Cell_Body.png

Note: all organelles in the cell produce information (stuff), except for the MT, which do not produce stuff but process and transport stuff throughout the body.

Note; a MT does not produce stuff but it can regulate it's own dynamic growth in accordance to the information that needs processing. IOW. MT is the only organelle that is able to adjust its own growth pattern (!!!!!) apart from any DNA instructions and adjust it's own electro-chemical properties to accommodate the transport of pertinent electro-chemical sensory information.

If we are looking for that which may be causal to "consciousness", MT are the only natural sensory information processing and distributing network, directly connected to the "senses" and the "brain", not the isolated organelles that produce specific electro-chemicals within a cell.

 

Are you accusing me of derailing this thread?
And you are correct, that "once upon a time" was when I was posting pertinent information in spite of every attempt at trying to derail this thread from scientific inquiry to vulgar ad hominem slinging. Every piece of scientific information in this post was originated by me with a few welcomed positive contributions. I am the one trying to keep this thread on the rails.
Who started this thread anyway? Anybody want to lay claim to the science part of this thread now?

There you go. A me-too latecomer who wants to get a few kicks in himself. Just keep that intellectual boot firmly down on my neck.

The current mob mentality on this forum goes something like this;
"No fresh breath of scientific import allowed for this racist moron bot who dares to try and talk about microtubules as if he has the secret to "consciousness". "For shame".
"OFF WITH HIS HEAD! "

You don't have a clue as to what's going on here, do you? Do some reading before you start passing some kneejerk judgement about something you know nothing about.

 

It is a dynamic pattern. Telomeres erode, shortening the DNA and eliminating information. Methylation changes which parts of DNA are active. The 'core' of any DNA strand remains relatively fixed in terms of its codons, which is what people refer to when they say that DNA never changes. But everything from aging to viruses change even that core DNA with time.

Microtubules are one part of the process of mitosis. They are not "copied by" microtubules - microtubules merely form the spindles that align chromosomes for mitosis.

Nope. See above.

Agreed. DNA does not store sensory information.

More of your woo. That has no basis in reality. Microtubules are part of what makes a neuron work. It is the neuron's functioning, not the activity of microtubules, that causes propagation of neural impulses.

Nope. Axons are part of the cell. They have cytoplasm, a cell membrane etc like any other cell. The are a bunch of microtubules in the axon initial segment (AIS) but not many in the axon itself. Look at the diagram you yourself copied and posted.

Not true at all. They are merely one part of the neuron, the cell that is the primary transport for neural activity (including sensory information.)

 

If anybody wants this thread to remain focused on the question in the OP title, please stop with the ad hominem and prejudicial verbal personal attacks and try to contribute positive information to the conversation.

If you think I'm gonna act like Trump and produce my birth certificate because someone accuses me of having a Orangutan father, you've have absolutely no understanding of the chronology of intellectual bigotry in this thread.

 

I have no idea what ails you but be sure I will not be replying to you again
- although I will report your scummy posts if I have the misfortune to see them again.

 

Yes, the cellular growth patterns contained in DNA are subject to change. But DNA does not process anything. Any dynamic change in DNA is caused by age, mutation, or injury. It is not part of the daily processing of trillions of bits of sensory inputs.

DNA Is Constantly Changing through the Process of Mutation

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https://www.nature.com/scitable/topicpage/dna-is-constantly-changing-through-the-process-6524898/

OK, what mechanisms does the copying?

Indeed.

But that is the subject under discussion! Conscious awareness and emotional experience of sensory observations. The distribution of this "information" requires a transport network, which is provided by the microtubular (neural) transport network evolved for that function throughout the entire organism.

There are more microtubules in the body than any other organelle (a functionally networked pattern).
There are trillions of MT. MT provide the structural integrity to the entire body as well as being part of their information transport system.

I beg to differ. Microtubules are muchmore versatile than that. Consider the Centrosome.

Centrosome

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The structure of the centrosome

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The generalized structure and molecular components of a cell

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centrosome

Yep, axons are the cables that contain the MT bundles. But again you undersestimate the pervasiveness of MT and the role they play in information transmission, reception, and consciousness in general

I disagree. Axons contain MT bundles, they transport a lot of information at the same time..

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Note; the green fibers are only the microtubules involved in mitosis only! The cell has many more microtubules that transport products from organelles to other organelles inside and outside the cell.

http://jonlieffmd.com/blog/are-microtubules-the-brain-of-the-neuron

https://slideplayer.com/slide/4452523/

The use of the word neural is a generality, like saying the "house is the primary transport for human telephone activity". The information transport system in all eukaryotic organisms requires microtubules, which end and begin in transmitting synapses and receiving synapses of the cell's dendrites. Just as humans transmit information to each other via telephone cables

Gene regulation

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28877466/

 

Strange , I am asking the same question of the people that have used me for an ad hominem shooting gallery, these past 6 months....
................ forgive the poetic liberty.

You will not ever find me uttering an ad hominem unless in response. You will NEVER hear me engage in racial discrimination, verbal or in practice. You're talking to a jazz musician here, the very idea is ludicrous.
I once helped Ella Fitzgerald take off her shoes between sets, because her feet hurt. She was a lovely lady.

Why don't you read some of my 14,000 posts which contain not a single ad hominem unless actually provoked, by some smart ass interloper. Or uttered a single racial slur, EVER in my entire life.

You don't know me and your prejudicial behavior and threats of censorship based on hear-say are totally out-of bounds.
All you are accomplishing is sowing seeds of distrust and disgust against an innocent victim. Do you see the analogy?

You don't think Censorship is a form of persecution? Ask Gallileo. Recant or you die. He recanted and was punished for being a heretic. I'll NEVER recant something I am not guilty of. I would rather die!

I reserve the right to use historical tragedies as examples similar in principle to what is going on here.
I certainly do not enjoy the free speech others are so terribly abusing against me without penalty.

I am the injured party here, no one has ever been injured by anything I have professed.

 

Do you see me mocking anybody?

Has anybody here witnessed violent death? I have. As a child in Amsterdam, I saw our Jewish family doctor and his wife, who lived across the street from us, killed by a German patrol. Was I mocking that?

Has anybody here witnessed the lines people being selected for transport to the concentration camps? I have. Very similar to the poor dreamers who are being caged at the US border. Am I mocking that?

Does anybody here know anything about me? I admit I know very little about you, but I can prove it has been you and a couple of other intellectual correctness police who have been mocking my intellect, my veracity, my character, relentlessly.

Apparently, now you want to add an accusation of racism to the mix too?

When are you going to stop this silly game? Grow up man.

This whole "theatre of the bizarre" which is playing today is not even wrong.

 

i like your writing
i think it shows great intellectual ability
with quite an artistic flare

 

Whereas you are being murdered just like George Floyd.

You realize no one takes you seriously any more due to histrionics like that, right?

 

What an asshole.

 

Ask yourself, have I treated you disrespectfully?

 

Ask yourself, have I treated you disrespectfully?

 

No, I am purposefully being deprived of a chance to discuss an issue of scientific interest. There is a concerted effort to shut this thread down, for absolutely no reason at all. Why, I have no idea, but I have several times tried to continue a meaningful discussion, which I am being denied. There are some who would see this thread closed (killed), the product of many hours of research and containing some very current information on the growing knowledge of the abilities and importance of microtubules.
The analogy is stark but, accurate.

The hystrionics are the shrill voices of "disapproval" and "condemnation" by some, not mine.

 

1) It is only of interest to you.
2) YOU INTENTIONALLY COMPARED YOURSELF TO FLOYD. Floyd was murdered by police. You are being criticized because you are posting woo. If you do not understand the difference between those two things, you are about as big a fool as they make.

 

And what gives you the authority to judge me, or any of the authoritative minds I base my perspective.
The only "hard facts" I have posted are from reliable sources and web-sites. The subject is not woo. Your refusal to consider (research) current knowledge. Your post #1507 is no more than repeating what I posted many months ago, complete with links.

I did notice a few apparent errors on your part, which I addressed on the merits in post #1510.

I could easily criticize you for posting woo, or a lack of actual knowledge, but I would rather continue the conversation on amicable terms instead of casually slinging around prejudicial statements.
They are never productive.

I see, "as big a fool as they make", is your scientific diagnosis?
Well then, if I am as big a fool as you say, should you not treat me with more compassion and understanding? Perhaps you are not quite as nice as you like to see yourself. Your bedside manner is atrocious! Making fun of the village fool and warning others of the dangers the fool poses to the scientific community.