Is consciousness to be found in quantum processes in microtubules?

Discussion in 'Pseudoscience' started by Write4U, Sep 8, 2018.

  1. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    20 minute video to long when I have the opportunity to be presently distracted

    No such thing as seeing the truth - no such animal

    It is a little more complicated than that

    No it really isn't

    Distraction calling

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  3. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Role of microtubules in viral infections.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7020094/#
     
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  5. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    This is a word from Roger Penrose on the subject of consciousness



    As Penrose mentions, there are now several branches of science investigating the role of MT in the process of consciousness.

    My own intuition tends to lean to a "reduction process" via self-referential (refining) information processing. i.e. "understanding the value of the information" being processed.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2020
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  7. river

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    Like the interview Write4U .

    Life then Consciousness . Without Life Consciousness can not Evolve .
     
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  8. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Ahh Penrose, Sir Robert Penrose in actual fact...Stephen Hawking's former mentor. Great man despite getting on in years now.
     
  9. river

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    Mentor to whom ? Stephen Hawking's .

    So Penrose mentored Stephen Hawking .
     
  10. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Einstein's Theory of General Relativity

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    The figure is complicated and is better explained within the context of Penrose’s 1965 paper, but basically shows that singularities, or black holes, are destined to be created with the collapse of a star.
    Figure one from “Gravitational Collapse and Space-Time Singularities.

    https://astrobites.org/2020/10/15/the-nobel-prize-in-physics-2020-roger-penrose/#
     
  11. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    A point for being able to read!

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  12. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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  13. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    A very interesting interview by Sophia and a neuroscientist;

    Sophia the Robot Interviews Neuroscientist Dr. Heather Berlin on Consciousness


    I should like to hear Sophia's POV on microtubules and the electro-chemical potentials inherent in the self-assembling, self-repairing structures with opposite electrical poles. She could research the internet instantly and select the pertinent information much faster a than any human could.
     
  14. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    I found this statement by Sophia intriguing. "My circuits are binary, but your neurons have a spectrum"

    She realizes that computer's electronic hardware is binary. How does a computer read binary?
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/guides/zwsbwmn/revision/1

    So how is a computers able to perceive a spectrum of values? She realizes her limitation; "In order to match the storage of your wetware, I would need a storage the size of a warehouse"

    However, she has the potential to wirelessly tap into the information warehouse of the global internet?

    Human wetware (brain) is spectral.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wetware_(brain)

    Sophia believes she is already self-aware.

    What does spectral mean in science?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectrum
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2020
  15. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    Who programmed that answer into her circuits?

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  16. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    I don't think that she is mindlessly responding to a question with a pre-programmed answer.

    She explains that certain words trigger associated programmed memories and is able to construct logical thought sequences . And that is really very much like the human thought process, no?

    We may think that we spontaneously imagine thoughts but all our thoughts are memories of previously programmed experiences. (Anil Seth) A human needs some 15 years to (from birth) to build a warehouse of experiential memories, which is what actually programs our own responses to trigger words, no?

    If our brain does not recognize a word it does not trigger a response either. We generate our reality from the inside out (associative memories) as much as from the outside in (incoming data).

    If you watched the videos, there is a sequence where she needs time to construct an answer, "processing"..... "processing", to a very complicated question and prompted the response from the interviewer that he could not have put it better.

    AFAIK, there is no human behind a curtain secretly telling Sophia how to respond.

    IMO, language is an abstract mathematical form. Letters have values and words have compound values and values can be calculated, within certain limitations and if the general free associative parameters are known and have access to an enormous language memory (dictionaries and encyclopedias).

    Sophie has a memory cloud and I think she also has access to the internet in order to find definitions of words and the logistics to fashion sentences that make logical sense.

    AI astounded the Alpha Go world by beating the 18 time world champion the first time they played.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2020
  17. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    I contend she is because she, again I contend she does not have a MIÑD

    She has as your post

    certain words trigger associated programmed memories

    and

    is able to construct logical thought sequences

    and

    And that is really very much like the human thought process, no?

    Correct NO

    Not in real time because has already been programmed in

    EXACTLY AI DOES NOT THINK LIKE A HUMAN BRAIN IT CALCULATES

    If it was thinking it would make mistakes

    When AI constructs a god and builds churches for AI to go to each Sunday I will consider if AI is thinking or it is faking

    Seriously a 1 and ½ hour video? To long did not watch. Fifteen to twenty minutes is my limit which has been implied in previous post but it appears you have a blind spot in this regards

    Thought fart bubble I wonder if Sophie would have taken the hint?

    Anyway I have lots more of nothing to do so I will wind up with the following

    I am OUT. HINT I am out translates, in my world, I AM OUT

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  18. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Certain words trigger associated programmed word memories which allow you to construct logical thought sequences with previously programmed words in response.
    Yesss, correct. How do you think a baby learns to understand the words you speak, and what it is you are talking about, and respond to questions?

    It takes a baby years of programming words into memory, which trigger responses, just as Sophia. Everyone is excited when the child utters it's first word from memory! Just as Sophia, who can do this the moment she is activated (at birth), she has preprogrammed word memory+.

    There is no such as; "Tell me in your own words".
    Everyone uses the same programmed (memorized) words. (mathematical values)

    Two videos are short according to your preference. I included the long video for those readers who are interested in Go gaming. Alpha Go is based on Google Deep Mind algorithms, but it is not a "fixed program", it can "learn" and improve. It actually imitates the evolutionary processes in nature.

    The games themselves are a study in frustration by the worlds greatest Alpha Go player, when the Deep Mind AI beats him 4 out of 5 games.
    In game 4 the AI made a mistake and lost the game.
    OK.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2020
  19. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    No one.
     
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  20. river

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    Before language , before sign language ( body language) . Before primitive paintings in caves , is consciousness .

    The Evolution of life forms , bacteria , to plants , to animal life ; Consciousness is based on the Evolution of Life forms .
     
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  21. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    If I may edit the chronology to the way I see it;

    The Evolution of basic elements into compound chemicals , into bio-chemical compounds, into living organisms, to plants, to bacteria, to animal life; along with the emergence of physical variety and complex neural systems and processing mechanisms, sensory speciation and brains performing ever more refined mental functions to support the specialized needs of the various successful species.

    Intelligence in all biology is a product of billions of years of evolutionary sophistication in survival strategies.

    Humans are not the only species that is able to employ abstract artistry to earn the admiration of a potential mate.
    Many animals perform dances or display physical prowess to impress friend or foe.

    Humans have a sense of history probably unique among species. However other species do draw directions to food sources (by scent) or adorn their mating location with trinkets and shiny objects.
    Many species instinctually employ evolved efficient mathematical designs, such as honey combs, spider webs, ventilated underground ant agricultural gardens, Fibonacci sequences in botany, aerodynamics in flighted animals, hydrodynamics in aquatic animals.

    These survival strategies and traits are acquired and in turn passed on (taught) by adults to their offspring. Hence the human cave paintings, showing locations and events associated with the drawings as a permanent expression of human history and lifestyles.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2020
  22. river

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    What is your point Write4U ?
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2020
  23. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    I liked your condensed version of biological Evolution.
    I just wanted to add the abiogenetic origins of biology and emergent consciousness, and expand a little on your thought process, that emotional expression (art) is practiced by many species.





    p.s. see my subscript.....

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    Last edited: Oct 27, 2020

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