Is consciousness to be found in quantum processes in microtubules?

Discussion in 'Pseudoscience' started by Write4U, Sep 8, 2018.

  1. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    I don't have a clue, but I have read that in an experiment a still beating adult heart in a petri dish was placed near the still beating heart of a baby in a petri dish, that after a few moments the baby's heart started beating in synchrony with the adult heart, even as they did not touch.

    If true, to me that was a remarkable discovery with some interesting implications.

    Elsewhere I have posted a video of natural synchrony occurring between metronomes, in one remarkable example.
     
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  3. Dennis Tate Registered Senior Member

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    I absolutely agree with your feeling that this happening is remarkable and has interesting implications!

    You don't happen to remember where that video is at here on the forum do you?
     
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  5. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Yep, I was debating if I should repost the link, but undoubtedly I would be accused of spamming......

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    I posted it in "Black Holes do not exist" in Pseudoscience sub-forum, post # 236
     
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  7. LeeDa Danger! Read with caution. Registered Senior Member

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    Quantum words? trying to help with the quantum part i guess. this is a language and it bears weight and applies to all languages. it can go anywhere till it's understood. so im a quantum warkid soundtest.
     
  8. LeeDa Danger! Read with caution. Registered Senior Member

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    as above.
     
  9. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    Yes.
     
  10. LeeDa Danger! Read with caution. Registered Senior Member

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    • Please don't post nonsense.
    quantum red handed

    couple examples

    Welcome to the matrix/magix
    Adolf/Outof Hitler/Hateliar
    God/t the holy spirit
     
  11. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    Thrilling!
     
  12. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Poetic science, that's new.
    Is it colder upstairs than in the winter?
     
  13. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    What are the implications of this paper? Why is this important?
     
  14. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    More of a mathematician, really. I'll grant you theoretical physicist.

    I'll agree with you that he would most probably be completely uninterested in Tejman's religiously-inspired pseudoscience.
     
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  15. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Seriously? You're now cross-posting even in your own threads?

    Or would cross-promoting be a better term?
     
  16. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    What cross-posting? That post was in response to an inquiry by David Tate.

    I am stating a fact. I also referred to the proposed hierarchy of (mathematical) orders in David Bohm's book "Wholeness and the Implicate Order" (post 1877)

    When I speak of Order I mean Orderly Patterns, and Orderly Patterns are in essence mathematical and measurable, universal constants which are applicable to all of physics, including brain function. Consciousness is not a magic sauce, it is an emergent phenomenon of physical brain functions and there for measurable. Tegmark proposes that some brain patterns ARE conscious, a very elegant solution to the "hard problem".

    At the time David seemed interested in those subjects.
    Abstract
    Seems this is directly relative to ORCH OR, Orchestrated Objective Reduction . No magic, just measurable physics.

    p.s. note the use of the term "differential equations" in context of microtubule dynamics.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2021
  17. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Theoretically, if fundamental energy could form a pattern that yielded the emergence of a conscious intelligence, it might be an item for consideration.
    The problem is that, as far as we know raw energy itself inherently chaotic and only becomes functional (able to do work) as part of a system, a pattern. As it took evolution a few billion years of natural selection to form a self-conscious neural pattern, specifically evolved for processing information, it is unlikely that such a pattern might spontaneously emerge from chaos. Chaos deals with very subtle changes resulting in large change "over time" (butterfly effect).

    But given the universal laws which appear to guide physical change, enough time and raw materials may well result in evolved physical patterns with emergent property of consciousness.

    In addition ORCH OR, there are two more new approaches to consciousness. IIT (Integrated Information Theory) is one of them.

    Integrated Information Theory

    Giulio Tononi (2015), Dr. Giulio Tononi, University of Wisconsin-Madison
    Introduction: From phenomenology to mechanisms
    http://www.scholarpedia.org/article/Integrated_information_theory
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2021
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  18. Dennis Tate Registered Senior Member

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    But... the fact that Dr. Stephen Hawking's ideas on The Anthropic Principle imply Energy from Quantum Vacuum existing for infinite time in the past.....
    (not for merely thirteen point eight billion years)..... expands the question of Intelligence beginning and evolution beginning and continuing in fundamental energy back to infinite time in the past...
    this increases the probability of intelligence coming into existence in the past by an essentially infinite factor over an evolutionary theory limited to four dimensional space - time and our universe and to our little part of our universe.

    Consciousness in physical patterns would be far less energetic than whatever form of consciousness would form in Energy from Quantum Vacuum over infinite time in the past.

    The Energy postulated by String Theory would go through an astonishing array of "experiences" over the time period that fundamental energy would have existed from.
    My conclusion is that however many Big Bang type of events may have occurred.....
    they would be much more likely to have been planned by that Intelligence and would not be merely random as Dr. Hawking postulated in writings on the Anthropic Principle.
     
  19. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    In a self-organizing universe an intelligent designer is superfluous. I subscribe to the notion that there is no such thing as irreducible complexity. I subscribe to relational values and mathematical processes and those concepts can exist in the abstract.
    And rather than saying this universe is fine tuned to accommodate humans, it is more logical to say that humans and all other life is fine tuned to accommodate the universe.

    After all this universe has only existed 13.8 billion years and started from chaos. Whatever came before doesn't count, that's gone. If there is a multiverse, do parralell universes still exist or is there a chronology of universal trial and error, similar to particles emerging from a quantum field and disappearing back into the quantum soup, some universes may live a little while before disintegrating back into chaos. After all it is predicted that will eventually happen to this universe. The Enthropy Principle.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entropy
    https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-030-05746-6_5#
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2021
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  20. Dennis Tate Registered Senior Member

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    In my opinion.... your answer to my post is brilliant and I love how you use technical jargon that I know would take years for me to learn!

    Wow!!!!!!
     
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  21. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Thank you Dennis, we try.........

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
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  22. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Microtubules and Microtubule-Associated Proteins
    Holly V. Goodson and Erin M. Jonasson

    SUMMARY
    1. INTRODUCTION
    Figure 1.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5983186/#
     
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  23. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Write4U;

    Cross-posting usually means putting the same content into two different threads. It can also mean posting something in thread A which links to thread B, and also posting in thread B to link back to thread A. The upshot is that an attempt is made to spread a single discussion over two separate threads.
    It is interesting to me that you posted a paper, but when I asked you what it is actually saying and why it is important/relevant, the best you could do was to repost the abstract.

    It seems clear that you don't have a clue what that paper is about. You're only copying its abstract here because it contains the magic word "microtubules". Never mind that you don't understand its contents.

    I guess your aim is just to prove that microtubules are an active area of research, or similar, even if you don't understand what the research is about or why people want to do it.

    Notice that while you mention "ORCH OR", there is no mention of that in the abstract. I'm guessing there's similarly no mention of it in the paper itself. So, it's a mystery as to why you would reach the conclusion that the paper's contents are somehow "directly relative [relevant?] to ORCH OR". Just further confirmation that you don't really know what the paper's about, if you ask me.

    Why is that notable? Any ideas, or are you now also latching on to any mention of "differential equations" that you can find, as well?
     

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