Is consciousness to be found in quantum processes in microtubules?

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i tend to agree
it makes plausible sense that electrical like life forms exist
while consciousness as we understand it must have physical properties
what we do not know is the relative frames that can contain a conscious life form in forms we are not aware of.
the nature of humanity's evolutionary drive to maintain arrogance is a survival instinct
it might well connect directly to greed and capitalism as a means to render development above that phase to be subservient.
it is clearly obvious religion as a while has the intent to suppress and create miss information to undermine advancement in these fields.
while on the other hand
we have fascism and communism(per say) systems of dictatorship and fear that promote a level of mandated ignorance and intellectual compliance on people and science in general.

now that all money is linked to science all science is money driven and money controlled
so we could postulate that until the world as a majority has secured a universal living wage along with housing and health care
such development will simply not be possible
will this spell the end for the species.
it looks logical in its current form as greed and lust for power seems to maintain its core overt hold on all leadership and systems of control finance and social culture design(schools and community construction and operation).

i need to be in the right head space for this type of discussion & given my current life situation that is fleeting and extremely short.
as the cost of living is driven higher and higher it removes the common people from being able to obtain deep insightful complex knowledge
this is by design by those who covet greed and fascist power.

overt material fear seems to be the primary mechanism of control
poverty & greed etc are the tools

if there is such a thing as a consciousness of light
can there be a consciousness of dark(dark energy?) the idea probably freaks out most religious people who would suppress such discussion
as 1 easy off hand way yo illustrate an easy conflict, regardless of those(many) who would seek to exploit it to enslave the rest of the population.

 

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You may find Write4U being quoted by dennis around the web forums from now on.

An easy search finds Dennis in lots of forums besides his own blog. One thing I notice is that Dennis will use quotes of members on different sites to back up his posts on another site. To quieten the noise here on this site, I'm sticking him on ignore.

 

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A little pessimistic IMO, but not fanciful.
I have a more optimistic view in that some day, perhaps not to far off we may making some breakthroughs in our study of quantum level.

I read once that between the smallest human observable objects and Planck scale lies an entire universe of unexplored space. Who know what goes on there is completely unknown. So, AFAIK , it's just a matter of time that we'll be able to explore that region more closely and perhaps be able to observe how particles emerge from quantum fields and if such things exist, be able to observe and measure the values of string .

Our brains seem capable of unlimited invention and given enough time we may unlock all of the universe's mysteries.

p.s. The first time I read the term "universe", I translated that as "the single song" (uni-verse).

Now I just read this: VERSE” = Spoken (or occasionally written) word, phrase,\ or sentence;

https://askinglot.com/what-does-verse-mean-in-universe

Interesting that science should use a religious term to describe our reality. Do scientists actually understand all the jargon they use?

 

COGNITIVE THEORIES OF CONSCIOUSNESS

Information processing theories of consciousness

Representational theories of consciousness

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2745874/

continued.......

 

continued,

THE GLOBAL WORKSPACE MODEL OF CONSCIOUSNESS

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2745874/

 

The subconscious interoceptive part of your brain doesn't know you exist, yet it regulates your homeostasis. The only time it tells you something is when it goes wrong. The conscious perceptive part does know you exist, but it cannot control your homeostasis.

From Perception to Attention - Discovering the Brain - NCBI ...

Perception part of brain

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK234148/#

 

anti-vaxers
anti GMO
Anti Genetic engineering
Anti Stem Cell Research
anti abortion
anti animal testing
anti freedom of science research
all hedged inside institutionalized religion & pretend charity's
designed to turn the telescope at the ground & install fear & moral panic to prevent it from being moved

yet all those groups (counting into maybe 4 billion people if not more) are all happy to let millions die from covid

i am a realist not a pessimist
in principal given the current moral cultural ideology, the world is over populated to cope with the amount of greed and selfishness that consumes the leadership & economic designs & cultures(including religions)

Consciousness is immoral

and once there, the ability to interact adjust and manipulate that area of real hard science would make outcomes look like magic

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To those who refused to look.
To those who do look, what once looked like magic, then begins to make sense.......

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Well, sir, there's nothing on earth
Like a genuine, bona fide
Analyzed, membrane microtubule
What'd I say?
"Microtubule!"
What's it called?
"Microtubule!"
That's right! Microtubule!
"Microtubule!"
"Microtubule!"
"Microtubule!"

"I hear those things are just cell parts!"
No sir, there's nothing it cannot do!
"Is there not more inside your heart?"
Not on your life, these things are NEW!
"What about biology?"
Microtubules do it all!
"What if you're stuck up in a tree?"
With microtubules you'll never fall!
"What if my house should be on fire?"
Microtubules save the day!
"What if someone says you're a liar?"
Microtubules! It's the only way!
"Microtubules!"
"Microtubules!"
"Microtubules!"
What are they called?
"Microtubules!"
Once more time!
"Microtubules!"

(apologies to Matt Groening)

 

I tried something akin to your effort here
Mine didn't work
Hope you do better

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Thank you for that accolade befitting the precious history and evolution of the roles microtubules fulfill in the body and brain (cytoskeleton and neural network).

Repetitive mention and analysis of microtubules and their functions in a thread devoted to the functions of microtubules and related filaments seems to have been successful in making an impression.

I call that clinical proof .

Now that the term microtubule is firmly imprinted in memory and has become an engram in the very microtubules that are being discussed, perhaps we can proceed to a more clinical discussion of this single potential candidate for the emergent and gradually evolving self-aware consciousness in all Eukaryotic organisms, from bacteria to humans

For an encore I'll repost a little abstraction of the purpose and findings of the research on the properties and roles that MT play in conscious awareness and in homeostasis in general.

Bundles of Brain Microtubules Generate Electrical Oscillations

• María del Rocío Cantero,
• Cecilia Villa Etchegoyen,
• Paula L. Perez,
• Noelia Scarinci &
• Horacio F. Cantiello

Scientific Reports volume 8, Article number: 11899 (2018)

Abstract

More.......
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-30453-2#

Resistance is futile!

 

Who is Bruce MacDonald?

 

Why do you limit the functions of microtubules to that single activity?

Functional coupling of microtubules to membranes – implications for membrane structure and dynamics
David J. Stephens
Journal of Cell Science 2012 125: 2795-2804; doi: 10.1242/jcs.097675

Summary

Note that the microtubule structure is not a membrane as depicted by the smear in the illustration. It is a self-assembling dynamical bipolar tubular coil (see next post)

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Motors in organelle positioning and signal transduction

Article navigation

• Top
• Article
  • Summary
  • Introduction
  • Numbers and types of motors associated with dynamic membranes
  • Coupling of microtubule motors to membranes
  • Roles for motors in membrane remodelling
  • Motors in organelle positioning and signal transduction
  • Microtubule dynamics drive membrane movement
  • Perspectives
  • Acknowledgments
  • Footnotes
  • References
• Figures & tables
• Info & metrics
• PDF

https://jcs.biologists.org/content/125/12/2795

 

There is more to microtubules than membrane connections.

The model of local axon homeostasis - explaining the role and regulation of microtubule bundles in axon maintenance and pathology

• Ines Hahn,
• André Voelzmann,
• Yu-Ting Liew,
• Beatriz Costa-Gomes &
• Andreas Prokop

Neural Development volume 14, Article number: 11 (2019)

Abstract

Introduction

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Specific properties of axons. Axons during the growth cone stage are shown in (a) and after synaptic maturation in (b), differing primarily in certain stage-specific specialisations including growth cones, synapses, electrical properties and glial interactions (here myelination [389, 392]). The core machinery in the axon shaft can be expected to be similar at both stages: parallel continuous bundles of extended but discontinuous MTs run all along axons serving as a structural backbone (see Fig. 2), a transport highway for axonal trafficking (driven by motor proteins), and a source for 'off-track' MTs contributing to morphogenetic processes including branch formation, directed axon growth and synapse formation/plasticity (green, orange, blue curved arrows); MT bundles are interspersed with longitudinal actin trails [18, 24], continuous networks of (smooth) endoplasmic reticulum [44, 393], and other membranous organelles including mitochondria [45]; axonal membranes display regularly spaced periodic rings of cortical actin [20, 21], a high number of ion-specific channel proteins and transporters to conduct nerve impulses [394], as well as adhesions with external structures including fasciculating parallel axons (not shown), glial processes [395] and synaptic partner cells [396]; a degree of independence from cell-body derived proteins is provided by local translation machinery [397,398,399] or supply from surrounding glia cells (not shown; [400,401,402,403]). Note that the axon diameter in the region between glia cells in B (referred to as Node of Ranvier) usually has a much smaller diameter than the rest of the axon [1]

https://neuraldevelopment.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13064-019-0134-0

One might have a peek at: https://www.proteinatlas.org/humanproteome/cell/microtubules

 

discussion moved soo far into your own thread topic i have replied inside it to prevent moderators getting complaints about being off topic and to help continue your thread subject

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which i am very interested in

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you appear to be dancing around the hard science

the consciousness as a conscious awareness of self
is in its intellect the essence of the self and conceptualization of a soul in its pure essence

sounds like a new sub-topic for your thread

bacterial consciousness
versus
electrical consciousness

neuro transmitters transmit electrical signals engaged by chemical process to engage chemical actualities
thus biology chemistry & electrical fields all interact
but does that define bacterial independence ? not specifically(obviously)

so while you may mathematically reduce neuro transmitters down to light frequency's and then on down to string theory etc
the consciousness is not specifically defined as a mechanism of light
thus
the quantum level

i wonder why your dancing around this aspect
most Americans are christian and raised to believe science generally aligns to religious ideology
am i speaking to your inner christian or your inner scientist ?

subjective summery of assumed probabilistic concepts

we can make anything support anything
and those read in enough know the complex reality of genetic knowledge
limbic knowledge
genetic predispositions
bacterial and viral influence on personality aspects which drive breeding practices
etc etc
all stuff wanted to be hidden and covered up by the church and many others

but this IS a discussion about SCIENCE
NOT a feel good warm fuzzy for partial secular creationists to feel obligingly mandated to conformist ambivalence
halcyon science?


NOTE i do like your delivery and tone
dont change that
its very nice(eloquent styled and informative)
im just slightly annoyed at something unrelated & getting to the point

 

I have addressed this before in the thread on chemical "Quorum Sensing" (see Bonnie Bassler). When I mention these subjects it is because I have already posted them in great detail in prior posts and reference to them is always at least tangently related to the OP topic.

It's hard to avoid mentioning E = Mc^2 , when discussing SR.

But as terms like microtubules and quorum sensing are relatively new terms in science, they are viewed with suspicion and misunderstanding as is evident in Vociferous' complete mis-interpretation.

http://sciforums.com/threads/quorum-sensing-this-is-remarkable.161640/
and
http://sciforums.com/threads/quorum-sensing-this-is-remarkable.161640/#post-3568940

Perhaps all my research efforts are not wasted after all........

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p.s. Thanks for the constructive critique. I seldom get into the hard science and mostly stay on the philosophical fringe, the fundamental perspectives of patterns that lead to understanding. (Roger Antonsen)

 

That came from a Simpsons episode - "Marge vs. the Monorail." It involved a shyster coming in to town and bilking the town out of millions to build a monorail, which he claimed could do everything from reducing crime to bringing Springfield lots of investment to giving everyone cushy jobs.

That, in turn, was a takeoff on "The Music Man" a famous musical about another conman who sells people on a high school band that will do similar miraculous things; there's nothing this band can't do!

Sound familiar?

 

I would recommend you stay with the Simpsons

Except I am not a shyster nor a conman and I back up all my post with links to the science . You just hide behind your anonymity with your vulgar ad hominems.

Not to me. Maybe to you? It just keep getting worse and worse doesn't it?
Now I am compared to a shyster and a conman. Why don't you just ........... ......... (familiar sounds) !

 

I figured. You're pretty blind to that sort of thing.

Well, to your credit, you are not trying to bilk anyone out of anything, as those two were trying to do. You just use the same tactics they do.