... cont'd THEN GO AWAY AND DISCUSS THOSE IDEAS!!!!! But you don't. You don't, iceaura doesn't, noone else does! And yet it is, somehow, despite repeatedly almost begging iceaura to ignore me and discuss what he clearly wants to, my fault that he doesn't, or that anyone else doesn't? And you are now joining him and blaming me for him, or you, being unable to discuss those matters! Seriously, how stupid are you? No trap. I am fully aware, and have repeatedly stated (if you had honestly read the thread(s) as you claim) that if you change the notion of "free" then you can change the answer. So go and change the notion of free you want to discuss, and go and discuss it. Noone is stopping you. "Look, sire, we really must march onward to where we want to go." "No! We must stop and blame this person for not moving with us, despite the fact that he has repeatedly said he is happy where he is and is under no obligation to move with us! It's all his fault!" Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! You really are blinkered, aren't you. If you are referring to my discussion with Vociferous, well, wouldn't you know, he is trying to offer a different criticism, a different angle, a new idea to the discussion. So of course I'll engage with him, at least as long as I find it relevant (and that is where our latest wrangling currently resides, as to whether or not the theory of time one adheres to impacts the issue at all). Why would you honestly expect anything different? But you, you came in to complain that the thread was going in circles... and then push the thread in the same circle you think it is going in. That is the irony of your actions, JamesR, and a big wet puddle is forming as the irony continues to drip off. Me, I'll happily get on and off as I see fit, thanks. At the moment I have no intention of repeating my responses to flawed criticisms. No blockage, I assure you. But thanks for trying. Come up with something new to try out and we can discuss, if you want. I have suggested many times that those wishing to discuss other topics related to freewill raise new threads, with this one being about the question asked in the thread title. You know, whether free will is possible in a deterministic universe? And if people wish to discuss whether other notions of "free" can lead to free will in such a universe, noone is stopping them raising and discussing that here. But I am under no obligation to do so. So I strongly suggest you get off the miniature pony you think is your high horse, and get with the program. You have been put out by my unwilling to engage you on matters that have, by your own admission, been covered already. I get that, but now you need to get over yourself. And certtainly not jump on the wagon of trying to lay the blame at my door for them not discussing other notions of free will ... ... that is simply unacceptable from you, from iceaura, from anyone else who tries it.