Is God a just judge?

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Greatest I am, Jun 20, 2014.

  1. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,740
    Is God a just judge?

    This speaks of Jesus.
    He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.

    The above quote shows this as Gods first actual judgement and shows his setting and accepting a bribe of a human sacrifice to corrupt or alter his justice and judgement.

    Justice usually states that only the punishment of the guilty is acceptable to justice and that it would be unjust to punish the innocent.

    God’s corruption of this usual justice is what the bribe or sacrifice of Jesus bought. Injustice.

    If you elect your judges in your country, would you vote God in as a fair and just judge knowing that he can be bribed?

    Is God a just judge?

    Regards
    DL
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. wellwisher Banned Banned

    Messages:
    5,160
    If you were a god, placed in a human body, losing that human body to death, would give you full power as a God, since the human body limits your power to space and time as well as death and pain. Death of the human body would not a sacrifice to you, but a medical procedure that restores you to better health. God makes judgements based on the bigger picture, which we may not making sense in a smaller picture of things. The child may not understand why he has to study each day. But years down the line if finally makes sense. God is looking to the future and not the here and now.

    The human sacrifice of Jesus had another use. It was needed to neutralize the power of sin and the devil; the power is sin is the law. If you break the worse laws of any culture, the ultimate punishment is the death penalty. That is the worse civil punishment than trumps all penalties. After you are killed by culture, you no longer have any further obligation to any law, since you are dead. They don't put your dead body on trial, or make the dead you pay further fines. Death places you beyond law. They might go after the living, such your family, but dead makes you exempt from further law.

    When Jesus was killed via the death penalty, he was removed from law since he paid the ultimate price. Since he was also the son of god, underneath, and was still alive in spirit, his new life implied no more connection to law, since he already paid the ultimate price of the death penalty. This legal technicality was genius and broke the yoke of law since the New Jesus was analogous to a dead man by the law; they killed him by the law as proof of his exemption.

    In the bigger picture sin was forgiven, since sin is not imputed where there is no law. Jesus as son of God was the technicality that broke law. His human sacrifice and death penalty separate him from all further obligation to any civil law. While Jesus as the son of God, was finally able to spread his wings, without a human body limitation, and assume his place in heaven at the right hand of God. Through Jesus we are exempt from law since he is the technicality conduit beyond the reach of law.

    It was quite clever, leading to Satan needing to send out his resume since his days in heaven became numbered.
     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,740
    I see.

    So even if it looks like God is a genocidal son murdering prick and all the evidence points to that conclusion, your faith is supposed to make you ignore it all.

    You follow your founding father well.

    “Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding.”

    “Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.”
    Martin Luther “

    Faith while ignoring facts is for fools.

    Regards
    DL
     
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. kx000 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,073
    Yes, because if he isn't moral he won't be held as God.
     
  8. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    15,396
    While most people claim their ImaginaryFiend is the source of all moral authority, their HolyBabbles do not portray them as having good morals & there is certainly no necessity for good morals for a god to be a god. The main attribute is power & IF there is some being(s) powerful enough to be called a god, that would not necessarily mean that god is benevolent, loving, intelligent, wise, sane, logical, mature, truthful or trustworthy.
     
  9. Arne Saknussemm trying to figure it all out Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,353
    double post
     
  10. Arne Saknussemm trying to figure it all out Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,353

    Your low-brow remarks are obvious trolling. If you don't believe in the Christian God that's your call. Why get online in a sub-forum of a science forum that is meant to discuss religion just so you can exhibit your ignorance (by which I mean your coarse, deliberately offensive language and tone)? I am reporting you to the moderators for trolling.

    You've made these same remarks repeatedly in other threads and there is no need to go on about it. You are boring me.
     
  11. sculptor Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,315
    theist
    atheist
    antitheist
    areligious
    antireligious

    so many layers
    And it seems that the most vitriolic are those who could best be described as anti-religious.

    If one assumes an infinite distance between man and god, then prognostications about god invariable and necessarily are prognostications about man, with the erroneous assumption that they are about god.
    If one assumes that there is some entity which could be called "GOD" then being a theist or atheist or antitheist or areligious or antireligious becomes meaningless. As, the choice is not ours to make.

    Original sin and/or infinite distance between us and god, has the benefit of making us all equals, and the morality embodied therein becomes a damned good guide for how we should treat each other.
     
  12. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,938
    Sorry Arne, but SIASL hasn't actually said anything in violation of the rules... and unless he starts restating the same opinion repeatedly in the same thread, I hardly even consider it trolling... though if the discussion is so similar to a previous thread, why has a new thread been opened about it?
     
  13. Yazata Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,616
    What does the word 'God' mean? What does it supposedly refer to? Does such a God exist? Is this God a judge? What and how does he/it judge?

    Maybe, if one holds to Christian beliefs.

    I suppose that there is great interest and value in questioning Christian theology from within, so to speak. That's what students often do in theological school. They ask questions like yours, learn the answers that theological tradition has produced, and then perhaps create some novel new answers of their own.

    The problem that I have with threads like this is that I'm not a Christian and I don't base my own thinking about religion from reading the Bible and thinking about the ethics of the stories and situations that it depicts.

    So I'm not really criticizing this thread or what GIA is doing, exactly. It's perfectly fine in my opinion. I'm just explaining why I find the whole thing a little alien.
     
  14. Yazata Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,616
    That's how we think in the modern individualistic West.

    The ancients often had very different ideas, thinking instead in terms of groups and of collective debts and obligations. We can see that reflected in the ancient Hebrews and in some aspects of Islamic law even today.

    For example, if a member of clan A kills a member of clan B, clan A owes a debt to clan B. (I believe that Islamic law still treats murder as a tort rather than as a crime.) And in many ancient cultures, if it wasn't possible for clan B to collect on the debt by killing the individual murderer, it was entirely permissable for members of clan B to kill any member of offending clan A for payback.

    So the way the ancient Hebrews saw it, when humanity screwed up and fell short of God's desires (symbolized by the Adam and Eve story) that was a failing that applied to the entire human clan, so to speak. The problem wasn't between God and individual humans, it was a problem between God and humanity collectively. So the human clan was imagined as owing some kind of collective debt to God.

    And in ancient times debt was typically imagined as proportional to the status of the one who had suffered damages. Unfortunately for us, God is supposed to be so Holy that nothing that humanity can possibly hand over (sacrifice) could possibly pay off humanity's debt to God. Only a divine payment could satisfy that kind of divine debt.

    In other words, I suspect that part of the problem that modern people face in getting their minds around ideas like substitutionary sacrifice and original sin is that we think in terms of the guilt and innocence of individuals as opposed to entire groups, and think of moral violations more in terms of crimes than as torts that require payment of civil damages.
     
  15. Yazata Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,616
    I agree with Arne that "ImaginaryFiend" and "HolyBabbles" is gratuitously insulting and comes awfully close to trolling.

    I'm not convinced that the main attribute of 'God' is power.

    If we are talking about the philosophical attributes, first-cause, sustainer-of-being or whatever, the thrust there seems to be towards ontological ultimacy of some kind.

    If we are talking about much of the Old Testament, especially the older bits, I think you might have a better argument. God there is seemingly kind of imagined as 'Lord', as pure soverignty, as the ultimate and greatest King.

    And by the time we get to the New Testament, we certainly find a growing ethical take on things.

    There's a whole literature on how the concept of 'God' evolves within the various books of the Bible.

    But yeah, I definitely do agree with you that if there is one or more cosmic super-beings out there (I still don't know how to distinguish divinities from super space-aliens, that's another problem), there's no a-priori reason that I can see to believe that they would be good in our terms.

    (Our relationship to them might be like cockroaches and humans: stay hidden in the walls and run like hell when the lights go on.)
     
  16. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,938
    There was a time where I would have agreed... but in a scientific station, one has to have more proof than "I believe" to make something physically true.
     
  17. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    15,396
    I've posted much less about religion than you. It is not my fault you cannot handle the truth. You may as well be talking about Mother Goose. Show me a god or stand down.
     
  18. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    15,396
    It is the so called Holy Bible that is insulting. It is theists acting as if a figment of their imagination is real that is insulting.
     
  19. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    15,396
    IF you're referring to what I think you are, I happened upon a thread which had not been posted to in 6 months & wanted to respond to something in it. Didn't think about whether it was too similar to another.
     
  20. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,740
    Our friend forgets that morals are developed to learn to live with those of your own kind. God has no other so he cannot have learned morals.

    The scribes knew that and wrote God up as the prick that he is.

    It is good for us that he is a myth.

    Seek God my friends. The one on offer in the bible is not worthy of that title.

    Regards
    DL
     
  21. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,740
    No argument as clearly shown in scriptures. If God is to be the epitome of all attributes as the church stupidly put to him, then he must be the greatest evil as well as the greatest good and that is basically what the bible tries to say but literalist Christians call the evils good. Their morality has been compromised.

    Regards
    DL
     
  22. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,740
    Hmmm.

    All I saw was God-like love.

    Proverbs 3:12
    For whom the Lord loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.

    [video=youtube;soDZBW-1P04]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soDZBW-1P04[/video]

    Regards
    DL
     
  23. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    15,396
    You can say that again. IF people must fabricate god(s), why don't they make it good, benevolent, loving, intelligent, sane, wise, mature & emotionally stable???
     

Share This Page