We're not going round and round. We're just not coming to an agreement on what is and is not moral. We should be able to because the formal study of morality is over 2500 years old. Stealing is immoral. No, Michael does not. Michael states that Ethics determines WHICH types of laws can be passed. Then of course it's up to the Citizens to determine which laws will be enacted. It should NOT be legal to pass immoral laws (like making rape or stealing legal). Well this is the thing quadraphonics, we have to let the market determine that. The CEO of IBM thought personal computers was a "silly" idea. The market disagreed. Unlike income tax, which involves force. Competing currencies do not and are voluntary. One is immoral, the other moral. Why not choose the moral route?