Is History cyclical or linear?

Discussion in 'History' started by Smalltownboy, May 8, 2007.

  1. Smalltownboy Registered Member

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    This is a debating point that always raises interest.

    Is what happens today a repeat of things that have happened in the past (ie, Crusades and "War on Terror"), or just a chain of unrelated events?

    Discuss.
     
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  3. nietzschefan Thread Killer Valued Senior Member

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    I very strongly favor Cycles. Many cycles large and small.

    I'm so far into that stuff, I think nuclear holocaust has happened at least once.
     
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  5. original sine Registered Senior Member

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    There could be many similarities, but it is never an exact repetition of events. Though they say that time flows like a river, and history repeats itself. Or those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it. Something like that.
     
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  7. Read-Only Valued Senior Member

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    Repeating in what way - some sort of cosmic or other force is causing us to cycle back through previous events???

    Pure poppycock! It's nothing more than a linear progression with one common element - humans. And it's that element alone, with all it's inherent faults and weaknesses that causes similar events to continue to happen again and again. Nothing more than that.
     
  8. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    I think history is actually like a seesaw, it swings higher in one culture and lower in another and then reverses its trend
     
  9. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    Little bit of both. The fact is the Renaissance was inspired by the rediscovery of ancient Greek and Roman texts, architecture, and sculpture.
     
  10. Read-Only Valued Senior Member

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    Not really. What you've described is correct but it's the only way events can be caused to repeat. Otherwise, it's simply people making the same mistakes they've made before (by being human and driven by the same human desires).
     
  11. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    I don't think it's only about repeating mistakes. Civilizations go through stages of vitality. At the end of their lifespan, the people are disillusioned, and tend to turn back to last working model of civilization they know about. That is why we are now seeing a resurgence of interest in primitive cultures and shamanism, of a return to cultures that lived in harmony with nature.
     
  12. Smalltownboy Registered Member

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    4
    I am not inferring that the concept of Cyclical history is anything to do with some kind of supernatural power. I furthermore didn't state my opinion

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    I am undecided on the matter, but probably lean more towards the Linear side of things, purely because of the lack of evidence for cyclical history.

    I agree with your second paragraph, but my views are perhaps a little less....emphatic?
     
  13. Read-Only Valued Senior Member

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    Please understand that I wasn't taking you, personally, to task but rather the implied topic.

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    History is created by people and despite advances in civilization and technology, people are no different inside than they were a thousand (or two or ten thousand) years ago. They are driven by exactly the same motivations they've always been. So, is there any wonder that they keep doing the same things over and over again?

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    To the true critical thinker, there's nothing else that COULD be expected from them/us.

    I suppose the reason I seemed so emphatic is that, from what I've just explained above, the conclusion is so startlingly obvious. (Plus, to my dismay, I've noticed that there are MANY individuals here who simply do not have the slightest understanding of basic human nature.)
     
  14. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    If it's helical, it would be both linear and cyclical.

    Some things have changed a lot. Agriculture, money, literacy, and science have made serious differences in how people behave.
     
  15. Mr. G reality.sys Valued Senior Member

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    History is anecdotal.

    Anecdote is after-the-fact accounting.

    Where such accountings might point is speculation.

    Linear or cyclic in its evolution, speculation remains what it is.
     
  16. John99 Banned Banned

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    No. The Crusades and the war on terror have nothing in common.

    It's linear.
     
  17. Mr. G reality.sys Valued Senior Member

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    People. Egos. Ideologies. Motivations. Violence. Death. Destruction. Mayhem. Tribalism. Territorialism. Tool usage. DNA. Earth.
     
  18. Liege-Killer Not as violent as it sounds Registered Senior Member

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    It's interesting to see this question asked here, as it comes up in two books I'm currently reading. One is About Time, on the subject of time and physics, by Paul Davies. The other is Stephen Jay Gould's Time's Arrow, Time's Cycle, in which he explores these two viewpoints and how they influenced the discovery of deep geological time.

    I'm not yet too certain about which is a better answer on a cosmic level. But at the level of human history, I'll go with the "both" answer. History does repeat itself -- there are lots of cycles, small cycles, large cycles, cycles within cycles. But there is also linear advancement to be seen.
     
  19. Read-Only Valued Senior Member

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    Agreed. But there's no mystical cosmic force, or anything similar, involved. It's simply a result of humans being humans. Nothing to do with time itself nor any other "motivator."
     
  20. EmptyForceOfChi Banned Banned

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    linear,

    but i do get the strange feelign i have done this all before,


    peace.
     
  21. quadraphonics Bloodthirsty Barbarian Valued Senior Member

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    FYI, most historians prefer the word "teleological" to "linear."
     
  22. EmptyForceOfChi Banned Banned

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    doesent that word mean that god created a linear design to follow?

    maybe it is a word used to debunk things.

    peace.
     
  23. quadraphonics Bloodthirsty Barbarian Valued Senior Member

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    One common usage of it is a "teleological argument," which is to say that some perceived order in the universe implies the presence of a creator (intelligent design is basically one big teleological argument). But the word itself has no necessary relation to religious belief. In the context of history, it simply means that there is some underlying progression towards an end-point.
     

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