Discussion in 'General Philosophy' started by John J. Bannan, Jun 28, 2007.
A drug that changes your personality for the worse - can't be moral.
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John, go try to tell someone with constant migraines that the Tylenol/Vicodin/Oxycontin/morphine, etc. that they take to make their migraines go away that drugs are immoral.
Go tell a woman in pain from PMS that Midol is immoral.
Go tell a woman in labor that an epidural is immoral.
And before you start mentioning the legality of it, you said 'drugs'. All those I listed above are drugs; you didn't specifiy over the counter, prescription or recreational.
And how would you apply immorality to any drug?
If I wanted to go eat a pill of E, or drop a hit of acid, or smoke a bit fat spliff, and go have a good time by myself, or with consentual friends doing the same thing, or with friends that don't but don't mind being around ones who do, how does that affect anyone else? How is that anyone else's fuckin business but my own? The morality of drugs is a very subjective term.
Oh, sure . . . argue prescription medications . . . like that's what I meant. No, I mean pot, crack, LSD.
No drug does that, some have the power to, if you let them. In the end it's your choices that determine what happens to you, not the drugs.
And lets not group all drugs together, there are many different kinds of drugs out there, some far more dangerous than others. For example, I read a study recently involving "magic" mushrooms given to about two dozen volunteers. Over 60% of them told researchers it was one of the most profound, meaningful and positive experiences of their lives. Less than 10% had a bad reaction to it, describing it as an incredible nightmare. Almost all said the experience had changed them for the better in some way and their families also noticed mostly positive changes for at least 6 months after the study. This is an illegal drug, it has the power to change you for better or worse, would you consider it immoral?
Did you get that study off a druggie web site?
No I didn't, it's an actual scientific study. You can read about it here, here and here.
In the study, more than 60 percent of subjects described the effects of psilocybin in ways that met criteria for a “full mystical experience” as measured by established psychological scales. One third said the experience was the single most spiritually significant of their lifetimes; and more than two-thirds rated it among their five most meaningful and spiritually significant. Griffiths says subjects liken it to the importance of the birth of their first child or the death of a parent.
Two months later, 79 percent of subjects reported moderately or greatly increased well-being or life satisfaction compared with those given a placebo at the same test session.
It would depend on personal belief and personal morals.
American Indians use peyote as a sacrament during rite of passage during religious ceremonies, do you feel this is immoral?
I would also like to point out that many "illegal" drugs are currently being tested in studies such as
MDMA in cancer
Mushrooms in OCD
The list goes on, so is it also immoral for this patient population to use these agents even though they are illegal?
I think that illegal drug use isn't immoral.
Replacing your life and all that you love for them, no.
Treating people badly while on them, yes.
Complaining about getting busted and how the cops are out to get you and its not your fault, yes.
If scientists are giving drugs out to people (I'm to assume their neighbor or some other objective person, not a scientist's stoner buddy) what do you think they told the subjects before testing? By planting a seed on what was expected, exaggerations occur.
Drug use does alter the personality. No one has absolute control over the effects. You say there is a choice to make, but when mixed up on a drug (that day or a week after, same thing) the drug destroys a part of your mind, no question about that. Life isn't as complicated as the average philosopher wishes it was so he confuses himself by taking a drug (caffeine, alcohol, nicotine...shrooms), but the effects are all the same. The brain is out of order for a period of time where little to no thought is created or sustained. This period of abscence, causes one to forget something whatever that something may be, that would have been added to your personality in one form or another but is now destroyed.
So, yes, all drug use is bad/aka immoral. If you have tried any form once, you have tried it all. Instead of upping the dose (caffeine with nicotine or shrooms to LSD) use you IMAGINATION!
Drugs are a lazy man's way to create something. Plan on being alive eventually; not sustaining a habit based on drugs.
Drugs are like a cheap weekend away.
They open your mind to different possibilities and feelings. You carry these with you after you've experienced them and they can prove useful in certain situations: understanding others, trying to remain positive in a bad situation, etc.
Most of all - they're great.
And Sandy, your God did invent quite a few drugs. Many of which have been used in times before and during the bible.
Hemp is an extremely useful material, but in the western world the biblebashers and other people put an end to that. That'd be a great way to lower your carbon footprint. Go and grown some in your garden, Sandy.
Opium poppies - great drugs coming from this plant. Illicit and legal. They just haven't found pain relief as effective as morphine yet.
e's make you love the world and 1 in a gazillion people actually die from it. Given the choice between a room full of drunks or people chewing their faces off on e, I'd pick the pillheads any day.
Clinical trials are developed and designed so that the patient population has informed consent, clearly defining the risks and benefits of the drug and the trial. The patient must sign consent which is written at an 8th grade level, approved by an IRB, CRC, and monitored closely.The physician must be an MD as they have to be credentialed, have a CDS, and DEA number.
The researchers countered “expectancy” by having both monitors and subjects “blinded” to what substance would be given. For ethical reasons, subjects were told about hallucinogens’ possible effects, butalso learned they could, instead, get other substances-weak or strong-that might change perception or consciousness. Most important, a third “red herring” group of six subjects had two blinded placebo sessions, then were told they’d receive psilocybin at a third. This tactic-questionnaires later verified-kept participants and monitors in the dark at the first two sessions about each capsule’s contents.
No question about that for you maybe, but how would you know? What drug are we talking about? What part of the brain do you claim it destroys?
Complete nonsense. Most drugs stimulate thought and brain activity, brain scans go through the roof when taking a hallucinogen. Does that mean they make you more creative or more receptive to ideas? Not necessarily, but they certainly don't cause your brain to short out and shut down for a few hours while you sit there catatonic dazed and confused. You're talking about your personal opinions, based on nothing, as if they're fact.
Drugs are an experience, nothing more. You can choose to have these experiences or you can choose not to. It's no different than skydiving. I could argue skydiving is an idiots way of having fun, why would anyone want to put their life in peril just to have fun? Just sit down and play a board game, that's fun too isn't it?
Sorry, it's not the same. Using your imagination is not the same as seeing your imagination manifested before your eyes, indistinguishable from ordinary reality except in the knowledge that you've taken a certain chemical to get there. You can choose to avoid these experiences, and that's perfectly fine, but don't assume you can have these experiences whenever you want without the chemical simply by "not being lazy".
drugs have been smoked in one form or anouther for hundreds perhaps even thousands of years, going back to the age of the bible, and cocaine however was sold has a past time drug that wasnt addictive, drugs should be legal and we should give people the choice, the drugs themselves dont make you a bad person its the stuff they are spiked with, many of us are not daft enough to take drugs, (i have smoked an odd spliff and hated it, i have never ever done it again) i dont think they are immoral at all!
Early Christians ate psychedelic snails to see God
mmmm, sorry but i have to disagree here. The more powerful the effect on the brain the more addictive the substance will be. Of course this depends on how long the user has been taking the drug.
Method of ingenstion play a major factor. Generally Cocaine is not 'spiked' except with inert cutting agents but it is the drug itslelf that causes the damage and dealers do not usually try to kill their customers by spiking their drugs.
There is no doubt whatsoever that drug use leads to immoral behavior, hence the term 'crack whore' so in essence the drug itself or mere use of it is not immoral but the effects on judgement will definitely lead to immoral behavior. It is really a matter of time.
You are completely mistaken. Hallucinogens aren't addictive. Some of the most powerful ones are found naturally in the brain (DMT).
oh really, i am mistaken? i would call the need to light a crack pipe every few minutes or killng someone for money to buy crack to be quite a powerful effect on the brain. Or how about standing in the pouring rain panhandling for money for your next hit in an emaciated scabby shell of a body?
I believe spidergoat was not talking about crack man. Crack is one of the most addictive drugs out there, that is why addicts go crazy! along with the fact of how they are treated in current society.
Was just gonna say...
I think the problem is, as always, people group all drugs together when in reality they're nothing alike. Cocaine is nothing like LSD, pot is nothing like alcohol, mushrooms are nothing like ketamine, meth is nothing like ecstasy. Some drugs are predominantly negative, others are more generally positive. Some I think should be legalised, others decriminalized, others should probably stay illegal.
Separate names with a comma.