Is islam really the fastest growing religion?

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by path, Mar 29, 2004.

  1. Lemming3k Insanity Gone Mad Registered Senior Member

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    1,180
    lol, close, lib dems(hey i like to be more middle of the road), i never agree with anybody on all their policies, i think ukip is a bad idea as total independance isnt a great idea(but keeping the pounds great), labour and conservatives just piss me off, BNP would deport half my friends though i agree about no more foriegners coming in, and i just dont see me in the hippy green party, it dont leave me much now does it?

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  3. surenderer Registered Senior Member

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    Indonesia the country with the largest muslim population in the world. and guess what.......there are white muslims there too

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    ....lol
     
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  5. ok, I'll grand you that, the 1st is dangerous fellow ( with a large military, etc to back him up, sort of like an elephant), the other 2 are syncopants, but you got to admitt that muslims sure play into their hand, read any good "fatwa's" lately?

    here's one :
    http://www.fas.org/irp/world/para/docs/980223-fatwa.htm

    also, now that Saddam is gone, shouldn't the Iraqis help in reconstruction, do more cheering, celebrate, "No Saddam Day"??? or do they miss him so much, that we should just let him go & say "we were only joking"?
     
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  7. Sher_Punjabi Registered Senior Member

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    yesh yesh "SOLVED" most of india's problesm

    only it lead to unhappy citizens, because they were considered second class citizens, which would eventually lead to a civil disorder

    but there was one thing the british made sure, corruption free, as of now, india is the most corrupt country
     
  8. Sher_Punjabi Registered Senior Member

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    42
    im very sorry for your loss

    and yesh i agree, that is wrong

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  9. surenderer Registered Senior Member

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    Dang dude Osama's "fatwa" is old news(of course Osama doesnt have the autority to even issue a fatwa technically)but i do agree that Osama was probably jumping up a down with glee when Bush attacked Iraq because that just gave more people a chance to hate Americans. One thing people dont realize is that in Arab culture(i used to live there) when someone's family is wronged it becomes that families obligation to "right that wrong" that aint a muslim thing thats tribal arab culture. So for every innocent Iraqi that was mistakenly killed with bombs or tanks it because that persons family obligation to avenge that death. Now in peacetime they can be avenged in courts with blood-money or with "worse treatment" but seeing as to how they cant take American pilots to court then they become terrorists thats why you cant/wont get rid of terrorism because for every one terrorist you kill you create(by nature) 20 more........peace
     
  10. Bells Staff Member

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    I would suggest you read up on the meaning of ethnic cleansing. And those pensioners, where did they end up going when they were moved out of the homes?

    This is what you don't understand Vienna. What do you see as the British identity? Does it live in you? How about in other British ethnics? Does it live in them? Or do you think that if an ethnic Brit eats too much curry, that they will lose that ethnicity? Your ethnicity resides in you. It does not reside in the country that you live in. You can live in any country anywhere in the world, and your sense of ethnicity will always be there. No one can take that from you. If there are migrants in your country, how can they possibly take your ethnicity from you? How can they take something that is always in your heart and mind? Or is it that you think the colourful faces that you see when you walk down the street is the destroyer of your ethnicity? That the smells of the streets are changing and the accents of the people around you are changing and that is destroying your ethnicity? Your ethnic identity will always be your own. No one can ever take that from you.

    My God! Do you even forget the policies of your own party? This is from what you've posted a couple of pages ago about the immigration policy of the BNP:

    I just love the 'voluntary resettlement'. You can imagine how those who refuse to leave would be treated. They would be harrassed and abused until they ended up having to leave the country. Just look at the way the BNP have reacted in the past in areas where there are a lot of immigrants. Do you seriously think that the BNP would allow a legal migrant, from say Africa or the Middle East, who's gotten his British citizenship and is working and owns his own home and pays the taxes, stay if he chooses to?

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    If you say yes, then you're more deluded than even I gave you credit for.. lol..

    I think you'll find that the violence and the terrorist bombings in Iraq at the moment are orchestrated and usually performed by non-Iraqis who have come into Iraq to fight their own war against the US and the UK.

    The few Iraqis who are fighting back are probably doing so because they want the US out of their country. I don't think I can blame the Iraqis who are fighting back against the US. The way they see it, their country has been invaded and occupied by an outside force who has made their country an even worse hell hole to live in than it was before. The Iraqis who are fighting back are living in a country where they can no longer rely on stable electricity, there's very little clean running water, unemployment is high because of the attacks, food is hard to come by and expensive, they are not free to go where they choose because the US has installed roadblocks all over the place, not to mention the torture that is continuing in the prisons. If I were in their shoes, I'd be fighting back too.
     
  11. Vienna Registered Senior Member

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    Immigration increases the size of the economy - how could it not? - but there is no evidence that it increases the one measure that matters, gross domestic product per capita. There are some shortages of skills, but only a tiny proportion of immigrants is plugging those gaps.

    Sure, immigrants contribute more in taxes than they consume in benefits, but that is only because there are so many highly paid immigrants such as American bankers and European executives paying more than their share. Immigrants from the Third World - who are responsible for the entire net immigration of a quarter of a million a year - suffer higher unemployment and lower earnings than average and almost certainly do not pay their way.

    The only reason for this net current immigration is not that Britain needs immigrants, but that immigrants want Britain. It is not even particularly good for the countries they come from. Stealing the most energetic, entrepreneurial or educated from the Third World is a very inefficient development policy.

    The one thing it does do is change the face of Britain, rapidly. One child in eight is now from an ethnic minority, rising to one in three in London. So-called "ethnic minorities" together form a majority in boroughs such as Brent and Newham, and in whole neighborhoods of cities in the North you can wander around for hours without seeing a white face, one monoculture having replaced another. Cities such as Coventry, Leicester and London are vying to see which can become the first white-minority city.

    The London magazine Time Out recently interviewed a Turkish immigrant who said that the English were now the foreigners in Stoke Newington. This, of course, was reported as a cause of celebration: we must celebrate diversity. We have to celebrate it, even though for white British people celebrating diversity basically means saying sorry. We have to celebrate diversity, because otherwise it might rise up and kill us: Northern Ireland, former Yugoslavia, Israel, Rwanda, Gujarat, northern Nigeria have all recently suffered mass deaths as a result of diversity.

    The British paper Muslim News compared Bradford with Belfast, with deeply entrenched divisions ripping a community apart and creating wounds that may be becoming impossible to heal. In Bradford, as in Belfast, the communities live apart, work apart, socialize apart and occasionally riot. Muslim peers advise that disillusioned British Muslim youths are in danger of being recruited to extremist organizations, and the secret services think that around 3,000 may have trained with al-Qaeda.

    There are roughly two million Muslims in Britain, most of them fine people, but mass immigration is increasing the numbers rapidly before we have learnt how to ensure that their children feel part of wider society and reach their full potential. Similarly, we have record levels of immigration from Africa, even though there is a widespread problem of young black men becoming increasingly alienated and criminalized. It is an uncomfortable fact that we have to face up to: mass immigration without integration leads to social fragmentation.

    Of course, it is all culturally enriching - those restaurants! - but surveys tell us that most Britons do not want to be culturally enriched. It is something they have in common with most peoples. I dare the immigration celebrationists to order the Nigerians to accept millions of Arabs, whites, Indians and Chinese to enrich their culture, or the Indians to accept millions of Chinese, Africans, Arabs and whites to enrich theirs.

    It is certainly changing Britain. A Middle Eastern immigrant, who is now passionately British, said: "This is not the country I came to in 1958, Britain is losing Britain in a fit of absent-mindedness. It is utter madness what is going on", and even many immigrants feel this." A Lebanese who lives in Nigeria says she cannot believe that Britain is just letting itself go "If we went to their country and did what they are doing here, it would be totally unacceptable."

    But we are too polite to say anything about it, too worried about being called racist, just too embarrassed about being British or English or whatever it is, just wallowing too much in post-colonial white guilt.

    If there are more people wanting to live in Britain than we can feasibly accept, then Britain has to tell people they cannot move here. We have to accept that people just do not have the right to live where they want in the world, and that the people of Britain have a right to decide who can move here. Wanting open borders is a noble aim, but not while there are such global imbalances in wealth that it causes destabilizing population flows.

    Obviously we should do more to help Third World countries to become places where people want to live rather than leave; it is unacceptable that we sit by and watch the entirely preventable Aids holocaust consume almost an entire continent. But the solution is to treat people where they live, rather than the limited number who find their way to Britain. The solution is to help Third World economies to become more vibrant rather than to steal their most energetic and entrepreneurial people.

    And the irony is that this wave of immigration pressure, which will forever change the face of Britain, will itself come to an end. As the Third World becomes richer - as is happening in India and China - the incentive to move here will erode. Puerto Ricans used to move to America, until a slight rise in wealth in Puerto Rico stemmed the flow. But by the time that the Third World no longer wants to move to Britain, Britain will be a foreign land
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2004
  12. Vienna Registered Senior Member

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    Islamic rappers' message of terror

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/religion/Story/0,2763,1143643,00.html

    It's rap, jihad-style. A music video with blood-curdling images, fronted by a young British Muslim rapper brandishing a gun and a Koran is the latest hit in radical Islamic circles.
    The rap song is called 'Dirty Kuffar' - Arabic for dirty non-believer - and it praises Osama bin Laden and the attack on the World Trade Centre in New York.

    The video has recently been posted on the British website run by the Islamic extremist Mohammed al-Massari, the UK-based Saudi Arabian dissident who has lived in Britain since 1994. Al-Massari claims that the video has been selling in large quantities at mosques to the younger generation and is in heavy demand overseas.

    The rapper fronting the video calls himself Sheikh Terra and the Soul Salah Crew - a take on the rap group So Solid Crew. 'Salah' is Arabic for faith.

    The video might at first be mistaken for an Ali G spoof, but the violent images quickly reveal it is no joke.

    The song starts with images of US marines in Iraq cheering as one of them shoots a wounded Iraqi lying on the floor. At the end of the video, it features shots of the hijacked planes flying into the Twin Towers with sounds of the rappers laughing.

    BASTARDS
     
  13. SnakeLord snakeystew.com Valued Senior Member

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    5,758
    Cool, a post about islam turning into a debate about England. As I'm a proud Englishman - intent on keeping our heritage- I will say a few things.

    Bells

    I recently conducted a survey. As you will probably know, it's Euro 2004, and being a very patriotic nation, flags are abundant throughout our country to help cheer on our boys to win the tournament.

    I conducted a survey to see just who had English flags on display. It came of no surprise to find not one muslim, who claims himself to be an English citizen, waving an English flag, not one pakistani proudly displaying an English flag.

    Would you like me to continue?

    This is one part of what separates an Englishman from a foreigner who will "claim" to be English, but really is very far from it.

    In America, don't they make incomers swear allegiance to the flag? We have no such thing here, and while our doors are open to anyone regardless of who they are or where they're from, nobody can say these people are English, or even that they're part of the English "community". It's not like we don't give them the chance to be - they just don't want to be.

    If you look at the black community, they have integrated themselves magnificently - so much so that they have earnt the right to be called English. But they are the only ones.

    But us English are very giving.. And unfortunately to such a degree that we end up suffering for it. Such a drama has been made about racism and politcal correctness, that the real Englishman is trampled upon without standing so much of a chance. If a an Englishman was to even try to claim racism, (which I have done - for a local newspaper), they get the return comment: "there's no such thing as racism towards white people".

    A while back I looked in the newspaper and saw a big advert. It said:

    "Jobs fair for ethnic minorities"

    I phoned up the newspaper, (and recorded the conversation), which went something along these lines:

    "Hi, I'd like to place an advert in your paper"

    "certainly sir, please give me the details."

    "ok, line 1: Jobs fair for white people."

    "e..e..excuse me? that's racism."

    "Oh. I didn't realise. You see the thing is, last week you ran an advert in your paper saying "jobs fair for ethnic minorities". I didn't realise there was a difference."

    From there on the conversation went haywire.

    Basically the Englishman has no rights within his own country. If he dares to look after 'his kind', he is accused of racism- but if they do it, it's all fair and normal.

    It's hardly a surprise that English people are moving over to france and spain faster than they have ever done in history. We are becoming the refugees.

    ----------------

    White power.

    (I bet some people make accusatory statements saying my above quote is racist. I have never heard anyone say "black power" or "asian power" is racist, so why can't white people do it?)
     
  14. Vienna Registered Senior Member

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    1,741
    Hello SnakeLord

    Thank you for your views and comments, Bells thinks I am making it all up.

    Your point about the English flag not being flown by Muslims in this country is very true. I have found an article which explains the absence of England flags and ultimately, anything British.



    "Muslims living in Britain must be clear about their obligations towards the non Muslims. Our role is not to integrate or become part of the kufr (non-Islamic) culture or man made system!

    How could, for example, a practicing Muslim don an English football team shirt which clearly displays a Christian Cross stained in red, a symbol which if worn by a Muslim knowingly, could take him out of the fold of Islam?

    Similarly how can a Muslim, in the same breath, support and give allegiance to the Queen when in Islam we know that the first action we do when we become Muslim is to reject allegiance to anyone other than the Creator of Man, Life and Universe i.e. Allah (swt) solely and without any partners?

    It is therefore impossible for a Muslim to emulate the disbelievers in their actions, behavior and even in their dress code. Rather it is incumbent upon the Muslims to invite the society to leave the falsehoods that they carry and call them to Islam as the only acceptable way of Life (to God)."


    "The short term solution in this case must be to have segregated independent Islamic schools teaching all subjects from an Islamic perspective, although the long term solution (as we must all know, understand and strive to achieve) is for the Shari'ah to be implemented both on an individual level and on State level: for all the laws to be based upon the Shari’ah and the total eradication thereby of any man made law or, to coin a phrase,

    to see the flag of Islam flying over 10 Downing Street!"



    Taken from

    Hijab Under Attack



    Any comments surenderer??? ..........Bells???
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2004
  15. Vienna Registered Senior Member

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    1,741
    British Muslims are just unbelievable, look at these comments I have taken from a Muslim site.

    If Blair is serious about winning the hearts of Muslims it would be better for him to start by withdrawing all British forces from Muslim soil, by paying compensation to the families of all those Muslims he has murdered in Iraq and in Afghanistan, by withdrawing all support for the tyrant regimes in Muslim countries and by stopping his support of the pirate State of Israel. This would be a good beginning instead of trying to bribe Muslims with hollow pledges of economic and social improvements and equal opportunities.

    taken from:

    BLAIR CONTESTS THE INCONTESTABLE…


    My message to them is - "Go - Fuck - Off"
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2004
  16. surenderer Registered Senior Member

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    879


    Usually because whites have all the power

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    .....there is nothing minorities love to hear more than whites complain about how unfair they have it when at best affirmative action and those type of rules make things EQUAL(As if you racists are what minorites want to be equal 2) But the funny thing about it is by listening to you guys posts i can allready tell that your life isnt a success because successful people dont complain about minorites getting a fair shot at the world only welfare recieving trailer trash does. I noticed how this thread started as muslim bashing now it turns to "white power". Well there really isnt a problem with you saying "white power" beacause thats the same thing that the Klan used to say and thats all you guys are....21st century Klansmen. AHHHHH!!!!! look at the Muslims are out to get me!!!! AHHHHHHH look out the blacks are out to get me!!!!! gimmie a break your hate speech is way worse than anything that a minority or muslim has ever done to you But do me a favor as you chant white pride remember all the Africans Asians Indians welll pretty much every minority on the planet that your ancestors have murdered I mean you wont let the Muslims forget about their past so why should you forget about yours?




    http://www.iviews.com/Articles/articles.asp?ref=IV0406-2350


    Its a two way street
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2004
  17. surenderer Registered Senior Member

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    879
    Who are muslims killing in Britain today? Its easy to excuse your murderous past but hold muslims accoutable for theirs huh? but then again i forgot you never even heard of Indonesia

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    From what i saw on TV I say alotta blond haired blue eyed people out their protesting treatment of muslims so thank goodness you are in the minority with your feelings Its a shame when to make your point you have to find some low grade nobody rapper

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  18. Vienna Registered Senior Member

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    Go tell it to the mountains bongo

    It wasn't me who said this.........

    "Muslims living in Britain must be clear about their obligations towards the non Muslims. Our role is not to integrate or become part of the kufr (non-Islamic) culture or man made system!

    How could, for example, a practicing Muslim don an English football team shirt which clearly displays a Christian Cross stained in red, a symbol which if worn by a Muslim knowingly, could take him out of the fold of Islam?

    Similarly how can a Muslim, in the same breath, support and give allegiance to the Queen when in Islam we know that the first action we do when we become Muslim is to reject allegiance to anyone other than the Creator of Man, Life and Universe i.e. Allah (swt) solely and without any partners?

    It is therefore impossible for a Muslim to emulate the disbelievers in their actions, behavior and even in their dress code. Rather it is incumbent upon the Muslims to invite the society to leave the falsehoods that they carry and call them to Islam as the only acceptable way of Life (to God)."
     
  19. surenderer Registered Senior Member

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    879


    Bongo......well thats better than b4

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    We both know that we can get any website to support our views so that aint even worth it so lets talk reality.......are muslims in your country commiting all the crimes? are they kidnapping and forcing Englishmen to convert or die? Are they blowing up buildings are doing suicide bombings? They arent? why not? I mean they are all terrorists right? see reality debunks fantasy everytime....sorry

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  20. Vienna Registered Senior Member

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    Scuse me old lad - but that isn't any old website - Its a website created by British Muslims FOR British Muslims.

    Do you disagree with its comments?
     
  21. surenderer Registered Senior Member

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    879


    I didnt mean old as in the 1500's i meant that we can find anything we want on the web to support our views(my apologies if i wasnt specific enough) No i dont agree with its views and neither does the Koran because when we are in a country we are suppose to obey the laws of that country as long as i doesnt intefere with our religous laws. I know of nothing of Brittish laws that are like that so i label that site as hate-speech and would never view it that may be a website created for brittish muslims but i doubt that many brittish muslims even view it
     
  22. Vienna Registered Senior Member

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    1,741
    The website actually answers your comments

    Muslims are people who believe in [deleted] allah, that there is none worthy to be worshipped, followed or obeyed EXCEPT Allah, this earth does not belong to the [deleted] that we should follow their way of life, it belongs to Allah and we should all follow His way of life.

    Allah created us all whether Muslims or [deleted]. He created all of our actions right or wrong, he created the entire earth and everything in it whether east or west, he created this island called britain and everybody in it, he created the continents and the seas. He is "lord of the east and the west", the king over all of mankind including 'queen' Elizabeth and the prime ministers and presidents.

    He obliged upon us law and order according to His commands and He gave us all the free will to abide by it. However, that free will does not include the choice to do so or not, obeying Him will gain reward and disobeying him will gain you nothing but punishment. He is king above the world leaders and his laws are above all others and none have the right to be obeyed except His.

    UK was created by and belongs to Allah, he is king over it all and he said in the qur'an "the way of life chosen for you by Allah is Al Islam" and if the British government and/or people do not like His way of life, then what right do they have to remain on the land of Allah?



    [deleted]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 20, 2004
  23. surenderer Registered Senior Member

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    879
    Yes i saw that but that is ridiculous. Im sure that web-site doesnt get any hits because its created by somebody who knows that controversy sells. After you posted the link i went to its homepage and I saw they even have a link to Osama's website so that right there shows the nature of that website(im sorry but you may not believe it but muslims dont support him) that is a biased prejudiced racist website that i dont support. now i will agree that HE is someone that wants islam to take the world by the sword
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 20, 2004

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