Is islam really the fastest growing religion?

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by path, Mar 29, 2004.

Page 17 of 21
  1. surenderer

    surenderer Registered Senior Member

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    Sigh.......Im not saying that islams message cant be distorted to say something evil if that is the interpetors wants but the fact is that website is in Brittian so where is all the crime and the revolution that website calls for? It isnt happening because nobody believes or care what some "nut job" cares. Muslims in Brittian see his website(i assume) as a shame and pay it no mind. Only non-muslims who have fear of muslim intentions pay those type of websites any mind and give those type of people undeserved "press" But you can draw what ever conclusions from our week-long-debate i think we are now going around and around so i still wish peace to you

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    surenderer, Jun 20, 2004
    #321

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  3. Bells

    Bells Staff Member

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    Vienna

    Ah Vienna Vienna Vienna... my lil bleached white strudel.. where do I even begin...

    I agree with you in regards to some of your beliefs on immigration. Since I have already stated my beliefs on that issue in the previous posts in this thread, I'm not about to type them all out again.

    So it actually is that you dislike the thought that you don't see as many white faces as you used to. I can understand where you are coming from. Believe me. I saw it as a child when the British, who were then in control of my birth country, forced thousands upon thousands of Indians to immigrate to my birth country to work in the cane fields, while forcing the French speaking creoles to lose their jobs and everything else. Many creoles left the country, including my parents because not only were the whites taking away what little rights they had, but now another group had come into play and were dominating them as well. As a result, the creoles became the extreme minority, along with a small group of Muslims and Chinese who'd also been there since the place was first populated by man. Most of the creoles and Muslims left the country because of the mistreatment they suffered at not only the white man's hands but now also the hands of the Indians who'd now become the majority. We suffered the same thing that you are suffering in the UK. Before I was born, it had gotten so bad that there were riots and killings. By the time I was born, there were no jobs for creoles. My parents had by then decided to immigrate and they applied for Canada and Australia. Thankfully Australia accepted us and we moved here when I was 8. But the funny thing was, in all of the fear that the creoles would lose their ethnicity in all that happened, instead it became stronger. The violence of the past is gone now, thankfully.

    I went back there for a brief holiday when I turned 18 and while the majority of the populaton was now Indian, the creoles who remained there were strong. Their ethnicity and culture and customs remained the dominant feature. That amazed me actually. I assumed the place was going to be completely alien to me now because the Indian population was so strong. But regardless of how many Indians were now there, the most dominant feature of it all was that of the ethnic creoles. That's what I was trying to tell you before Vienna. I've been where you've been. And while you are right to fear for your culture disappearing. Such sense of culture and ethnicity will always remain strong, because it lives in you. I came from a place where the people like me (who were the descendants of the French and Dutch who'd bred with their slaves) were the ethnic backbone of the country. It was our country. And in the space of a couple of decades, we lost it in the sense that an outside force brought in thousands of people who then took over. But our ethnicity and culture never disappeared. Instead, when I went back there on a holiday in my late teens, I saw that it had become so much stronger.

    One thing I found unfortunate was that there was still the colour/racial and class structure that had always existed. Creoles did not marry non-creoles and the Indians did not marry non-Indians, the whites did not marry non-whites, etc. That still remained and I think it will always be that way. There was very little blending in that sense and any one of colour who was married to a white person was usually shunned by both their family and the white community as well, which I think is sad. That's why I've always said I would never go back there because I disagree with such discrimination. Plus the fact that my family would have a fit that my other half is white and he'd probably be spat on by the white population there. But that's a different story altogether...

    Anywho I've rambled again... sorry...



    Ermm I think you will find that it wasn't so much diversity, or the same kind of diversity that you're talking about in the UK, that caused the genocide in those countries.

    Um ever been to Nigeria or India Vienna? I think you'll find that there are hundreds of thousands of non-Nigerians or Indians living and working there.

    And there is your proof that not all Muslims want to take over the UK or want to bomb the place.

    I don't agree with an open border policy either. But I don't believe in putting refugees in detention centres out in the desert for years and years, where children cannot go to school or live a normal childhood. I find such treatment to be inhumane and the thought that some children have never known life outside a detention centre to be obscene. A line has to be drawn somewhere. And I do agree with you in helping third world countries and even cancelling their foreign debt.

    As to your rapper article. I agree, but again, while some Muslims may believe or approve as this fool does, it doesn't mean that all do. It's unfair to group all together when all do not agree with such thoughts or policies. I think back to some gang rape cases we had here in Australia where a large group of Lebanese young men had gang raped and brutalised some girls in Sydney. I remember how reports were saying that when these little shits appeared in court, their families were seen to make offensive remarks and gestures to the girls who had been raped. The Lebanese community were in fact horrified and struggled to show that they condemned what had happened to those girls. A leading Lebanese cleric came out and said that the sentences in this country were not severe enough and that these men should be deported along with their families back to Lebanon and the criminals could then get the death penalty for the rapes. While many in Australia were baying for the blood of the Muslims, especially in Sydney, the true fact of the matter was that the majority of Muslims condemned what had happened.

    As for the article you posted with the dickheads preaching for Muslims to take over the UK. It's a hatesite Vienna. As I said above, the majority of Muslims probably find it as abhorrent as you do. Extremist such as those who run that sight should be treated as being the kooky dickheads that they portray themselves to be. White extremists also have such sites in other countries. They exist everywhere. Hell I've even found such sites here in Australia against the Aboriginals.

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    Heh... I think that should have been worded as "If Blair is serious about winning the hearts of the British people".. because surely the opposition to the war, and the support that your Government gives to the known tyrants for reasons which are beyond anyone with sense, is strong there...?

    SnakeLord

    I agree with you in regards to the advert in the paper. I find such things to be disgusting. We are all equal. I disagree with the protection of one race of people while taking away the rights of others. I have seen what such actions can do first hand and I've always been against it. The person you spoke to on the phone is wrong and stupid. Racism can exist against ANY race. Be they white or black.

    Heh... that just reminded me of something. We had to swear allegiance to the Queen when we became Australian citizens long ago. I know it's probably racist of me to say so, but I dislike it when I see migrants make no move to adopt at least some culture of their new country. I'm not saying that they should drop all of their own culture and adopt a completely new culture... but at least some. At the very least, learn the language. I just think it is so rude not to. My parents did not speak much English when they came here... they could read it well, but not speak it as well.. me I could only speak French. But I learnt the language straight away and while it was harder for my parents, they now speak English well... it's spoken with a heavy French accent lol.. but they speak it. LOL I just remembered my Dad buying a very big jar of vegemite and in his attempt to embrace the Australian culture, smeared a large amount of it on a slice of bread. LMAO the look on his face when he took a biteful.... he hasn't touched vegemite since... But look, at the very least, migrants should be forced to take language lessons. Or even test their language skills before they come into the country. That's the way I see it anyway.

    But I agree with you though. Racism can and does go both ways. It happens against whites as much as it happens against blacks or anyone else for that matter. And I've never once heard anyone ever day black power or Asian power. Being proud of your ethnicity is one thing. But when you are proud of it to the detriment of another person of another ethnicity... then that's just wrong.
     
    Bells, Jun 20, 2004
    #322

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  5. Vienna

    Vienna Registered Senior Member

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    It is impossible for a country to be a democracy and an ISLAMIC nation,

    Quoting from an Islamic website:

    "Democracy is the rule of the people, for the people, by the people. This is the fundamental and irreconcilable difference between Islam and Democracy. Islam is fundamentally based on Tawheed, that there is none worthy to be worshipped, obeyed or followed except Allah, that the only rule and sovereignty is for Allah. Islam does not allow legislation to fall into the hands of the people.

    The Khalifah is what unites ALL the muslims together, there are differences among the sunnis alone, let alone the shi'a - that is not a problem. However the opinion of the Khalifah is binding, and is what will bind the Muslims together despite the differences, ALL Muslims are united under one leader, who implements only God's Law."

    Therefore: It is impossible for a country to be a democracy and an ISLAMIC nation
     
    Vienna, Jun 20, 2004
    #323

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  7. Bells

    Bells Staff Member

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    Ermm Vienna, have you ever been to Indonesia? Read about it maybe? Heard about it in the news when they have DEMOCRATIC elections there? Indonesia is a democracy Vienna, it may not have been before when Soeharto was defeated, but it is now. Although while it does have the highest Muslim population, I wouldn't classify it as an Islamic State. I don't think anyone would actually. :bugeye:
     
    Bells, Jun 20, 2004
    #324
  8. surenderer

    surenderer Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    879




    It's kinda funny how you only believe muslim-hate websites but you accuse all muslims of doing the same here let me help you out.......From Encarte on Indonesia:


    VI Government
    Print Preview of Section

    Indonesia is a constitutional republic with an elected president, an elected parliament, and an appointed judiciary. The president and his or her ministers have far more power than the parliament or judiciary. The government operates under a 1945 constitution, which was replaced in 1950 but then reinstated in 1959. The 1945 constitution is based on the doctrine of Pancasila (Sanskrit for “five principles”), defined in the constitution as “a belief in the one supreme god; just and civilized humanity; the unity of Indonesia; democracy guided by the inner wisdom of deliberations among representatives; social justice for all the Indonesian people.” All citizens at least 17 years of age may vote. Married persons may vote regardless of their age
     
    surenderer, Jun 20, 2004
    #325
  9. Joeman

    Joeman Eviiiiiiiil Clown Registered Senior Member

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    2,448
    I saw on newspaper the other day that Wicca is the fastest growing religion in the world. The membership doubles every few months. I think Harry Potter movie has a lot to do with it.
     
    Joeman, Jun 20, 2004
    #326
  10. SnakeLord

    SnakeLord snakeystew.com Valued Senior Member

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    5,758
    Surenderer

    Firstly you should add another 'r' to your name, (surrenderer)

    Secondly, I think you have picked up the wrong end of my post. Bells asked; "What do you see as the British identity? Does it live in you? How about in other British ethnics? Does it live in them?" and I responded mainly to that.

    While your naivety is rather amusing, and even quite cute to a degree, it is completely irrelevant to what I was saying. If you support equality, you must accept that equality is all or none, (including the white man who should be able to put an advert in the newspaper as I depicted earlier just the same as anyone else).

    Perhaps from now on you should just leave the posting to Bells, who seemed to grasp what I was saying.

    I tend not to 'bash' muslims, so I haven't played a part in this thread - but when people bring my country into the discussion, It's my right to join in. No?

    I'll have to take your word for it and assume you were once a member or something. Personally I've never heard of or seen a "klan member", so wouldn't have the slightest clue what they say.

    No disrespect, but I have absolutely zero interest in muslims.

    Since when? My post said something along the lines of: "If you look at the black community, they have integrated themselves magnificently - so much so that they have earnt the right to be called English."

    So how did you manage to extract your sentence from mine? Maybe I just used words that were too big?

    I hate to be the one to point it out to you, but it's your hate speech. I didn't say any of what you've just said- it has all been created by your brain, typed by your hand, and then you try to pass it on to me. Congratulations.

    Where and what is your point? I'm well aware people are and have been killing each other since day 1. What I was pointing out, that a white man cannot say white power without being accused of racism, (or even so far as you calling me a "klan member"), but a black man can say black power and nobody would say anything. That is not equality. I highlighted this with the part about placing an advert in the paper. As for saying "you wont let the Muslims forget about their past", what past are you talking about? Maybe I need to say it once more, but I have no interest in muslims whatsoever, nor could I really care what they did in their past.

    Bells

    Indeed. There are those who do and have tried- and then there are those that simply don't want to, and it can only be questioned why they move to the country when they have absolutely no care or respect for it - including its politics, education system, and so on. In no way does it mean they need to 'do away' with their own culture - but if their own culture is all they're interested in, then they might aswell just stay in their own country.

    I dunno.. it depends how it's said. I see nothing wrong in a man being proud of being who he is, as opposed to perhaps forgetting about who he is merely because others don't like the sound of it. Saying "I'm proud to be black", in is no way detrimental to anyone else, and I personally have no objections to it. What does make me question though, is that if equality is even an issue, then everyone should have that same right regardless. In such instances though, you'd find the very second a white person even makes a comment, he'd be pounced upon- not only by people of other cultures and ethnic backgrounds - but by his own kind aswell. That is not equality.

    Actually I had a rather interesting chat with a man a while back..

    I had happened to mention something about black people to which he said:

    "I hate how white people always call us black. We're not black, we're coloured"

    To which I replied:

    "Yeah, I hate how black people always call us white. We're not white, we're a pinky mixture."

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    SnakeLord, Jun 20, 2004
    #327
  11. Bells

    Bells Staff Member

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    I agree with you on this. I guess it could be because of the way that I was brought up. The way my parents saw it, if you go to another country you should learn the language and some of the customs as a matter of courtesy. And when we moved to Australia, it was not only a matter of courtesy then, but a matter of survival. We still maintain much of our customs at home (for example, my parents still mostly speak French at home and unfortunately want me to do the same when I visit them so that I don't lose that part of my heritage), which in reality don't differ that much from the Australian way of life, and we still enjoy our traditional foods, but for the most part, our lives have merged with the customs of this country. How can it not? When you live somewhere, you can't remain so closed off from the community and the world that you don't take on some of their culture. We've been in Australia since 1980 and I cant even begin to imagine that if someone has lived in a country for that length of time, that they wouldn't have taken on any of that country's culture. It's impossible not to. I don't think one could live normally otherwise. And to not have learned any of the language in that time is to me inexcusable. Although maybe my father took such language education to another level.. hehehe.. My father has so accepted the Australian culture and language since we moved here in 1980 that if he ever swears now it's usually in English... much to the chagrin of my mother who feels mortified that someone might hear and understand that he is in fact swearing (Mother is very polite and proper and doesn't want people to know if Father is swearing so as she says, if he has to swear, do so in French.. my parents are kooky..)... and it's even more amusing considering that their closest neighbours is mostly the Australian wildlife as they've decided to experience Australiana even better now by living literally in an area where it's mostly native forest.... kangaroos, koalas and snakes on the patio and all...

    But anyway, any country that anyone ever goes to, whether it is to live, work or visit, one should at least learn something of that culture and language. Just as a common courtesy for starters. If you're going to live there, then that education should be a bit more indepth. Keep your own culture alive, but also adopt more of another culture. Believe me, having been there, done that... life becomes actually richer for it.

    I agree with you. It shouldn't be detrimental to make such a statement or to have such a belief. I'm proud of my heritage as it's helped shape who I am today. But it has become detrimental because we are still stained by the ideology and beliefs of our fairly recent history. Racism will never disappear, be it racism towards the coloured or the whites. We are still so uncomfortable about the whole notion of such pride that we don't say it out loud. White people are scared to say it in case they appear to be racist and black people say it as an affirmation against the crimes and oppression they had faced in the past and still face today. I guess if you're white and wearing a swastika, it may not be the right thing to say. But why shouldn't you be proud of who you are?

    I am a person who's of French, Dutch and African heritage and I'm proud of all of it. I would not change it for anything in this world. But if any person tried to put that down or put my colour down, I'd respond to it as it should be responded to. You can be proud of your colour and your heritage, but as you say, it should never be said in a manner that is detrimental or as a put down to others. My white friends have often said that they are proud to be white and I've never once felt offended by it because it's never said in a manner that would make anyone else feel inferior. My other half is of English and Dutch heritage and he's uber blindingly white and he's proud of his colour (even though he's so white even he laughs at it), why shouldn't he be? It's part of him.
     
    Bells, Jun 20, 2004
    #328
  12. Vienna

    Vienna Registered Senior Member

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    Also.........

    Indonesia is the world's largest archipelago; it achieved independence from the Netherlands in 1949. Current issues include: alleviating widespread poverty, preventing terrorism, effecting a transition to a popularly-elected government after four decades of authoritarianism, implementing reforms of the banking sector, addressing charges of cronyism and corruption, holding the military and police accountable for human rights violations, and resolving separatist pressures in Aceh and Papua.

    Indonesia, faces economic development problems stemming from recent acts of terrorism, unequal resource distribution among regions, endemic corruption, the lack of reliable legal recourse in contract disputes, weaknesses in the banking system, and a generally poor climate for foreign investment. Indonesia withdrew from its IMF program at the end of 2003, but issued a "White Paper" that commits the government to maintaining fundamentally sound macroeconomic policies previously established under IMF guidelines. Investors, however, continued to face a host of on-the-ground microeconomic problems and an inadequate judicial system.

    Sounds a lovely place doesn't it - Muslims sure know how to run a country

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    Last edited: Jun 21, 2004
    Vienna, Jun 20, 2004
    #329
  13. WildBlueYonder

    WildBlueYonder Guest

    apparently, you haven't watched developments there, a downward spiral,

    politics & Islam:
    http://www.bens.org/sw_ar010801.html

    EastTimor:
    http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB62/

    Papua New Guinea:
    http://countrystudies.us/indonesia/100.htm

    attacks against Christians:
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/1955918.stm
     
    WildBlueYonder, Jun 25, 2004
    #330
  14. Bells

    Bells Staff Member

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    I have watched the developments. Doesn't detract from the fact that Indonesia is not an Islamic State and is in fact a democracy. The attacks and fighting between Christians and Muslims is not renown to solely Indonesia, it happens all over the world. I haven't said that they don't have problems. On the contrary, the place is rife with warring factions. All sides are rebelling. A bit like many sides here in Australia are rebelling against Howard and how those in the US are rebelling against Bush.
     
    Bells, Jun 25, 2004
    #331
  15. surenderer

    surenderer Registered Senior Member

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    879





    Name me please one country in the world that doesnt have coruption or problems........my only point was that you said that it was impossible for muslims to have a democratic society but in Indonesia not only do they have one but they have also had a woman leader

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    surenderer, Jun 25, 2004
    #332
  16. Medicine*Woman

    Medicine*Woman Jesus: Mythstory--Not History! Valued Senior Member

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    *************
    M*W: I really must go see those movies!
     
    Medicine*Woman, Jun 26, 2004
    #333
  17. battig1370

    battig1370 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    374
    Hello Everyone,

    The false prophet Muhammad did not accept the testimony of Jesus to be TRUE.

    The false prophet Muhammad did NOT believe that Jesus was granted ALL POWER and AUTHORITY in heaven, and on the earth, Jesus said, "ALL POWER is given unto ME in heaven and in earth" (Matthew 28:18). --- "Heaven and earth shall pass away, but MY WORDS shall not pass away." -(Matt 24:35)

    ANYONE that claims to be a prophet and does not believe that Jesus has been granted the position/office of THE ALMIGHTY from his FATHER, is a false prophet. Also the followers of these false prophets are DECEIVED.

    Jesus, the speaker I, introduced himself to John saying, "I am Alpha and Omega ---" - (Rev.1:8) --- "Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am he that liveth, and was dead; and behold, I am alive for evermore ---"

    The false prophet Muhammad did NOT believe these WORDS of Jesus, and the followers believe the same as Muhammad. Because of this Muhammad did NOT believe that Jesus was the TRUE PROPHET who overcame, and was granted ALL POWER and AUTHORITY in heaven, and on the earth.

    Peace be with you, Paul
     
    battig1370, Jul 12, 2004
    #334
  18. WildBlueYonder

    WildBlueYonder Guest

    Joeman, you have found one of the secret of statistics; that you can lie by using them in various ways, one is the starting point, where do you assign zero on the graph?,

    just found this, from:
    http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-myths-fastest-growing.htm
    conversion rates, if you are interested, are farther down on the link
     
    WildBlueYonder, Jul 19, 2004
    #335
  19. azhar_rahman

    azhar_rahman Registered Member

    Messages:
    26
    Hi people. My names azhar im from london uk. I would first like to say you lot are so sad its unbelivable. you may not like islam because of the many cultures its come from.. Or you may think you're an expert on islam because of the many studies and books you have read. and of course the holy quran (translated of course. something is allways lost in translation by the way) because you wouldnt waste your time learning arabic (the language of love and poetry) but instead learn a language which you culturally indentify with. I could waste my time here and tell you of the many scientific truth's and the numerous scientists (dr keith moore big up blad) that consistently agree and are amazed at some of the verses (truth's) but i wont cos it will achieve nuttin (jack S***) only God can will a person to the correct path and wise thinking. if i was a gambler i would bet on any odds that you peeps hate each other and see each other as stupid products of each others religions. what i am saying is If you really want to know and understand anything about islam in context then you got to do it with an open mind and throw all your previous conceptions or misconceptions out of the window or you will achieve nothing.

    that chick paula and others so stupid aint they
     
    azhar_rahman, Feb 12, 2005
    #336
  20. azhar_rahman

    azhar_rahman Registered Member

    Messages:
    26
    WHAT OTHERS SAY ABOUT ISLAM, THE HOLY QURAN AND MUHAMMED (P.B.U.H)
    IN A TIME WHEN MANY RELIGIONS ARE DECREASING IN NUMBERS, ISLAM ON THE OTHER HAND IS INCREASING. ISLAM IS THE FASTEST GROWING RELIGION IN THE WORLD. THIS PHENOMENON INDICATES THAT ISLAM IS TRULY A RELIGION FROM GOD. IT IS UNREASONABLE TO THINK THAT SO MANY PEOPLE CONVERTED TO ISLAM WITHOUT CAREFUL CONSIDERATION AND DEEP CONTEMPLATION BEFORE CONCLUDING THAT ISLAM IS TRUE.

    This is no less than a reminder to (all) the worlds. And you shall certainly know the truth of it (all) after a while.(38:87-88)






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    "Islam is the fastest-growing religion in America, a guide and pillar of stability for many of our people..." HILLARY RODMAN CLINTON, Los Angeles Times, May 31, 1996, p.3


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    Already more than a billion-people strong, Islam is the world’s fastest-growing religion. ABCNEWS, Abcnews.com


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    "Islam is the fastest-growing religion in the country." NEWSDAY, March 7, 1989, p.4


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    "Islam is the fastest-growing religion in the United States..." NEW YORK TIMES, Feb 21, 1989, p.1


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    Moslems are the world's fastest-growing group..." USA TODAY, The populationreferance bureau, Feb. 17, 1989, p.4A


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    "Muhummed is the most successful of all Prophets and religious personalities. " Encyclopedia Britannica


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    "There are more Muslims in North America then Jews Now." Dan Rathers, CBSNEWS


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    "Islam is the fastest growing religion in North America." TIMES MAGAZINE


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    "Islam continues to grow in America, and no one can doubt that!" CNN, December 15, 1995


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    "The religion of Islam is growing faster than any other religion in the world." MIKE WALLACE, 60 MINUTES


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    "Five to 6 million strong, Muslims in America already outnumber Presbyterians, Episcopalians, and Mormons, and they are more numerous than Quakers, Unitarians, Seventh-day Adventists, Mennonites, Jehovah's Witnesses, and Christian Scientists, combined. Many demographers say Islam has overtaken Judaism as the country's second-most commonly practiced religion; others say it is in the passing lane." JOHAN BLANK, USNEWS (7/20/98)


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    "In fact, religion experts say Islam is the second-largest religion in the United States... Islam has 5 million to 6 million members, followed by Judaism, with approximately 4.5 million..... And Islam is believed to be fastest-growing religion in the country, with half its expansion coming from new immigrants and the other half from conversions." By ELSA C. ARNETT
    Knight-Ridder News Service


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    Professor Keith Moore, one of the world’s prominent scientists of anatomy and embryology. University of Toronto, Canada It has been a great pleasure for me to help clarify statements in the Qur’aan about human development. It is clear to me that these statements must have come to Muhammad from Allah, or Allah, because almost all of this knowledge was not discovered
    until many centuries later. This proves to me that Muhammad must have been a messenger of Allah.


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    "But Islam has a still further service to render to the cause of humanity. It stands after all nearer to the real East than Europe does, and it possesses a magnificent tradition of inter-racial understanding and cooperation. No other society has such a record of success uniting in an equality of status, of opportunity, and of endeavours so many and so various races of mankind . . . Islam has still the power to reconcile apparently irreconcilable elements of race and tradition. If ever the opposition of the great societies of East and West is to be replaced by cooperation, the mediation of Islam is an indispensable condition. In its hands lies very largely the solution of the problem with which Europe is faced in its relation with East. If they unite, the hope of a peaceful issue is immeasurably enhanced. But if Europe, by rejecting the cooperation of Islam, throws it into the arms of its rivals, the issue can only be disastrous for both." --H.A.R. Gibb, WHITHER ISLAM, London, 1932, p. 379.


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    "It (Islam) replaced monkishness by manliness. It gives hope to the slave, brotherhood to mankind, and recognition of the fundamental facts of human nature." --Canon Taylor, Paper read before the Church Congress at Walverhamton, Oct. 7, 1887; Quoted by Arnoud in THE PREACHING OF ISLAM, pp. 71-72.


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    The founder of twenty terrestrial empires and of one spiritual empire, that is Muhammed. As regards all standards by which
    human greatness may be measured, we may well ask, is there any man greater than he? " Lamartine, Historie de la Turquie, Paris 1854, Vol. 11 pp. 276-2727


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    "If a man like Muhamed were to assume the dictatorship of the modern world, he would succeed in solving its problems that
    would bring it the much needed peace and happiness." George Bernard Shaw


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    "How, for instance, can any other appeal stand against that of the Moslem who, in approaching the pagan, says to him, however obscure or degraded he may be 'Embrace the faith, and you are at once equal and a brother.' Islam knows no color line." (S. S. Leeder, VEILED MYSTERIES OF EGYPT)


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    Professor Siaveda , He is also one of the most famous scientists in the world.
    I think it seems to me very, very mysterious, almost unbelievable. I really think if what you have said is true,


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    Professor William W. Hay is one of the best known marine scientists in the United States. satellite photography and emote-sensing techniques. Professor Hay replied: I find it very interesting that this sort of information is in the ancient scripture of the Holy Qur’aan, and I have no way of knowing where they would come from, but I think it is extremely interesting that they are there and that this work is going on to discover it, the meaning of some of the passages. Professor Hay: Well, I would think it must be the divine being!


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    Professor Yushudi Kusan: Director of the Tokyo Observatory,
    I can say, I am very mush impressed by finding true astronomical facts in the Qur’aan.


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    Professor Alfred Kroner who is one of the world’s most famous geologists
    "Thinking about many of these questions and thinking where Muhammad came from, he was after all a bedouin. I think it is almost impossible that he could have known about things like the common origin of the universe, because scientists have only found out within the last few years with very complicated and advanced technological methods that this is the case.


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    Dr. T.V.N. Persaud is a Professor of Anatomy and Head of the Department of Anatomy, and a professor of Pediatrics and Child Health, University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada. He is the author or editor of 25 books, and has published over 181 scientific papers. In 1991, he received the most distinguished award presented in the field of anatomy in Canada.
    "It seems to me that Muhammad was a very ordinary man. He could not read or write. In fact, he was illiterate. We are talking about 1400 years ago. You have someone who was illiterate making profound pronouncement and statements and are amazingly accurate about scientific nature. I personally cannot see how this could be mere chance. There are too many accuracy’s and, like Dr. Moore, I have no difficulty in my mind in concerning that this is a divine inspiration or revelation which led him to these statements."


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    Joe Leigh Simpson, Professor of Obstetrics and Gynecology at the North Western University in Chicago in the United States of America. Professor Simpson said: It follows, I think, that not only is there no conflict between genetics and religion, but in fact religion can guide science by adding revelation to some traditional scientific approaches. That there exists statements in the Qur’aan shown by science to be valid, which supports knowledge in the Qur’aan having been derived from Allah.


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    Professor Palmer a scientist from the U.S.
    We need research into the history of early Middle Eastern oral traditions to know whether in fact such historical events have been reported. If there is no such record, it strengthens the belief that Allah transmitted through Muhammad bits of his knowledge that we have only discovered for ourselves in recent times. We look forward to a continuing dialogue on the topic of science in the Qur’aan in the context of geology. Thank you very much.


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    Professor Tagata Tagasone, formerly Head of the Department of Anatomy and Embryology at the University of Shiang Mai in Thailand. He is now the Dean of the College of the Medicine at the University. From my studies and from what I have learned throughout this conference, I believe that everything that has been recorded in the Qur’aan 1400 years ago must be the truth, that can be proved by the scientific means. Since the Prophet Muhammad could neither read nor write, Muhammad must be a messenger who relayed this truth which was revealed to him as an enlightenment by the One Who is an eligible Creator. This Creator must be Allah, or Allah. Therefore, I think this is the time to say ‘Laa ilaaha illallah’, that there is no Allah to worship except Allah, ‘Muhammad Rasool Allah’, Muhammad is messenger of Allah...


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    Professor Armstrong, Scientist works at NASA, I am impressed that how remarkably some of the ancient writings seem to correspond to modern and recent Astronomy. There may well have to be something beyond what we understand as ordinary human experience to account for the writings that we have seen.


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    Professor Dorja Rao, It is difficult to imagine that this type of knowledge was existing at that time, around 1400 years back. May be some of the things they have simple idea about, but do describe those things in great detail is very difficult. So, this is definitely not a simple human knowledge.


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    "My choice of Muhammad to lead the list of the world's most influential persons may surprise some readers and may be questioned by others, but he was the only man in history who was supremely successful on both the religious and secular level." --Michael H. Hart, THE 100: A RANKING OF THE MOST INFLUENTIAL PERSONS IN HISTORY, New York: Hart Publishing Company, Inc., 1978, p. 33.


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    "No other society has such a record of success in uniting in an equality of status, of opportunity and endeavour so many and so
    varied races of mankind. The great Muslim communities of Africa, India and Indonesia, perhaps also the small community in
    Japan, show that Islam has still the power to reconcile apparently irreconcilable elements of race and tradition. If ever the
    opposition of the great societies of the East and west is to be replaced by cooperation, the mediation of Islam is an
    indispensable condition." (H.A.R. Gibb, WHITHER ISLAM, p. 379)


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    The nation's claim to be a Christian country is about to meet its first challenge: the number of practising Muslims is set to overtake Anglican Christians.... There has also been a number of high-profile conversions to Islam from Christianity. These include Mike Tyson, the former world champion boxer; Chris Eubank, the British middleweight boxing champion, who has changed his name to Hamdan; and Cat Stevens, the pop musician, who calls himself Yousef Islam.... Prince Charles courted controversy earlier this year when he reaffirmed his claim that when he succeeds the throne, he does not wish to be the defender of only the Christian faith. Rajeev Syal and Christopher Morgan Sunday Times (London, U.K.)


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    "I have studied him - the wonderful man - and in my opinion far from being an anti-Christ he must be called the saviour of
    humanity. " George Bernard Shaw in "The Genuine Islam"


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    "Muhammad, the inspired man who founded Islam, was born about A.D. 570 into an Arabian tribe that worshipped idols. Orphaned at birth, he was always particularly solicitous of the poor and needy, the widow and the orphan, the slave and the downtrodden. At twenty, he was already a successful businessman, and soon became director of camel caravans for a wealthy
    widow. When he reached twenty-five, his employer, recognizing his merit, proposed marriage. Even though she was fifteen years older, he married her, and as long as she lived, remained a devoted husband.
    "Like almost every major prophet before him, Muhammad fought shy of serving as the transmitter of God's word, sensing his own inadequacy. But the angel commanded 'Read.' So far as we know, Muhammad was unable to read or write, but he began to dictate those inspired words which would soon revolutionize a large segment of the earth: 'There is one God.'
    "In all things Muhammad was profoundly practical. When his beloved son Ibrahim died, an eclipse occurred, and rumours of God's personal condolence quickly arose. Whereupon Muhammad is said to have announced, 'An eclipse is a phenomenon of nature. It is foolish to attribute such things to the death or birth of a human being.
    "At Muhammad's own death an attempt was made to deify him, but the man who was to become his administrative successor killed the hysteria with one of the noblest speeches in religious history: 'If there are any among you who worshipped Muhammad, he is dead. But if it is God you worshipped, He lives forever." --James A. Michener, "Islam: The Misunderstood Religion," in READER'S DIGEST (American edition), May 1955, pp. 68-70.


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    "In little more than a year he was actually the spiritual, nominal and temporal rule of Medina, with his hands on the lever
    that was to shake the world." John Austin, "Muhammad the Prophet of Allah," in T.P. 's and Cassel's Weekly for 24th September 1927.


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    "Everything made so much sense. This is the beauty of the Qur'an; it asks you to reflect and reason....When I read the Qur'an further, it talked about prayer, kindness and charity. I was not a Muslim yet, but I felt the only answer for me was the Qur'an and God had sent it to me." Cat Stevens (YusufIslam), former British pop star.


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    "Four years after the death of Justinian, A.D. 569, was born at Mecca, in Arabia the man who, of all men exercised the
    greatest influence upon the human race . . . Mohammed . . . " John William Draper, M.D., L.L.D., A History of the Intellectual Development of Europe, London 1875, Vol.1, pp.329-330


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    "Muhammad was the soul of kindness, and his influence was felt and never forgotten by those around him." Diwan Chand Sharma, The Prophets of the East, Calcutta 1935, p. l 22.


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    "People like Pasteur and Salk are leaders in the first sense. People like Gandhi and Confucius, on one hand, and Alexander,
    Caesar and Hitler on the other, are leaders in the second and perhaps the third sense. Jesus and Buddha belong in the third
    category alone. Perhaps the greatest leader of all times was Mohammed, who combined all three functions. To a lesser
    degree, Moses did the same." Professor Jules Masserman


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    Ahmed Versi, editor of the weekly Muslim News, said the growth of Islam has been constant: "The younger generation of Muslims that I have encountered is becoming more aware of its Muslim identity and is therefore practising its faith with vigour."


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    "The extinction of race consciousness as between Muslims is one of the outstanding achievements of Islam and in the
    contemporary world there is, as it happens, a crying need for the propagation of this Islamic virtue..." (A.J. Toynbee,
    CIVILIZATION ON TRIAL, New York, p. 205)


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    "Sense of justice is one of the most wonderful ideals of Islam, because as I read in the Qur'an I find those dynamic principles of life, not mystic but practical ethics for the daily conduct of life suited to the whole world." --Lectures on "The Ideals of Islam;" see SPEECHES AND WRITINGS OF SAROJINI NAIDU, Madras, 1918, p. 167.


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    "History makes it clear however, that the legend of fanatical Muslims sweeping through the world and forcing Islam at the point of the sword upon conquered races is one of the most fantastically absurd myths that historians have ever repeated." --De Lacy O'Leary, ISLAM AT THE CROSSROADS, London, 1923, p. 8.


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    "The Muslim community is much more aware of its religion and the use that religion plays within its community." Dr Peter Brierley, executive director of the Christian Research Association, a London-based charity


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    "I have always held the religion of Muhammad in high estimation because of its wonderful vitality. It is the only religion which appears to me to possess that assimilating capacity to the changing phase of existence which can make itself appeal to every age. I have studied him - the wonderful man and in my opinion for from being an anti-Christ, he must be called the Saviour of Humanity. I believe that if a man like him were to assume the dictatorship of the modern world, he would succeed in solving its problems in a way that would bring it the much needed peace and happiness: I have prophesied about the faith of Muhammad that it would be acceptable to the Europe of tomorrow as it is beginning to be acceptable to the Europe of today." --G.B. Shaw, THE GENUINE ISLAM, Vol. 1, No. 81936.


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    "A growing number of Muslims in America, more than 40 percent are African-American," Charles Bierbauer, from the Senior Washington Correspondent


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    "The extinction of race consciousness as between Muslims is one of the outstanding achievements of Islam, and in the ntemporary world there is, as it happens, a crying need for the propagation of this Islamic virtue." --A.J. Toynbee, CIVILIZATION ON TRIAL, New York, 1948, p. 205.


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    "The rise of Islam is perhaps the most amazing event in human history. Springing from a land and a people like previously negligible, Islam spread within a century over half the earth, shattering great empires, overthrowing long established religions, remoulding the souls of races, and building up a whole new world - world of Islam.


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    "The closer we examine this development the more extraordinary does it appear. The other great religions won their way slowly, by painful struggle and finally triumphed with the aid of powerful monarchs converted to the new faith. Christianity had its Constantine, Buddhism its Asoka, and Zoroastrianism its Cyrus, each lending to his chosen cult the mighty force of secular authority. Not so Islam. Arising in a desert land sparsely inhabited by a nomad race previously undistinguished in human
    annals, Islam sallied forth on its great adventure with the slenderest human backing and against the heaviest material odds. Yet Islam triumphed with seemingly miraculous ease, and a couple of generations saw the Fiery Crescent borne victorious from the Pyrenees to the Himalayas and from the desert of Central Asia to the deserts of Central Africa." --A.M.L. Stoddard, quoted in ISLAM - THE RELIGION OF ALL PROPHETS, Begum Bawani Waqf, Karachi, Pakistan, p. 56.


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    "I am not a Muslim in the usual sense, though I hope I am a "Muslim" as "one surrendered to God," but I believe that embedded in the Quran and other expressions of the Islamic vision are vast stores of divine truth from which I and other occidentals have still much to learn, and 'Islam is certainly a strong contender for the supplying of the basic framework of the one religion of the future.'" --W. Montgomery Watt, ISLAM AND CHRISTIANITY TODAY, London, 1983, p. ix.


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    'I believe in One God and Mahomet the Apostle of God,' is the simple and invariable profession of Islam. The intellectual image of the Deity has never been degraded by any visible idol; the honours of the prophet have never transgressed the measure of human virtue, and his living precepts have restrained the gratitude of his disciples within the bounds of reason and religion." --Edward Gibbon and Simon Ocklay, HISTORY OF THE SARACEN EMPIRE, London, 1870, p. 54.


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    "He was Caesar and Pope in one; but he was Pope without Pope's pretensions, Caesar without the legions of Caesar: without a standing army, without a bodyguard, without a palace, without a fixed revenue; if ever any man had the right to say that he ruled by the right divine, it was Mohammed, for he had all the power without its instruments and without its supports."
    --Bosworth Smith, MOHAMMAD AND MOHAMMADANISM, London, 1874, p. 92.


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    "His readiness to undergo persecutions for his beliefs, the high moral character of the men who believed in him and looked up to him as leader, and the greatness of his ultimate achievement - all argue his fundamental integrity. To suppose Muhammad an impostor raises more problems than it solves. Moreover, none of the great figures of history is so poorly appreciated in the West as Muhammad." --W. Montgomery Watt, MOHAMMAD AT MECCA, Oxford, 1953, p. 52.


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    "The doctrine of brotherhood of Islam extends to all human beings, no matter what color, race or creed. Islam is the only religion which has been able to realize this doctrine in ractice. Muslims wherever on the world they are will recognize each other as brothers." Mr. R. L. Mellema, Holland, Anthropologist, Writer and Scholar.


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    "It is impossible for anyone who studies the life and character of the great Prophet of Arabia, who knows how he taught and how he lived, to feel anything but reverence for that mighty Prophet, one of the great messengers of the Supreme. And although in what I put to you I shall say many things which may be familiar to many, yet I myself feel whenever I re-read them, a new way of admiration, a new sense of reverence for that mighty Arabian teacher." --Annie Besant, THE LIFE AND TEACHINGS OF MUHAMMAD, Madras, 1932, p. 4.


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    "Islam is the fastest-growing religion in America, a guide and pillar of stability for many of our people..." HILLARY RODMAN CLINTON, Los Angeles Times, May 31, 1996, p.3


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    Already more than a billion-people strong, Islam is the world’s fastest-growing religion. ABCNEWS, Abcnews.com


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    "Islam is the fastest-growing religion in the country." NEWSDAY, March 7, 1989, p.4


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    "The essential and definite element of my conversion to Islam was the Qur'an. I began to study it before my conversion with the critical spirit of a Western intellectual .... There are certain verses of this book, the Qur'an, revealed more than thirteen centuries ago, which teach exactly the same notions as the most modern scientific researches do. This definitely converted me."
    Ali Selman Benoist, France, Doctor of Medicine.


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    "I have read the Sacred Scriptures of every religion; nowhere have I found what I encountered in Islam: perfection. The Holy Qur'an, compared to any other scripture I have read, is like the Sun compared to that of a match. I firmly believe that anybody who reads the Word of Allah with a mind that is not completely closed to Truth, will become a Muslim." Saifuddin Dirk Walter Mosig, U. S.A.


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    "The universal brotherhood of Islam, regardless of race, politics, color or country, has been brought home to me most keenly many times in my life -- and this is another feature which drew me towards the Faith." Col. Donald S. Rockwell, U.S.A. Poet, Critic and Author.


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    "Medieval Islam was technologically advanced and open to innovation. It acheived far higher literacy rates than in contemporary Europe;it assimilated the legacy of classical Greek civilization to such a degree thatmany classical books are now known to us only through Arabic copies. It invented windmills ,trigonometry, lateen sails and made major advances in metallurgy, mechanical and chemical engineering and irrigation methods. In the middle-ages the flow of technology was overwhelmingly from Islam
    to Europe rather from Europe to Islam. Only after the 1500's did the net direction of flow begin to reverse." (pg 253) Jared Diamond a world renowned UCLA sociologist, and physiologist won the Pulitzer Prize for his book: "Guns, Germs, and Steel."


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    The scientists who participated in these dialogues were all non-Muslims, most of whom were explaining some scientific facts which they have realized only very recently and after several years of research and study. When they were told that what they have just discovered recently was already referred to either directly or indirectly in the Holy Qur'aan more than 1400 years ago, they showed a great deal of astonishment. Their comments were varied, but almost all of them confessed that this Qur'aan could not have come from any human or ordinary source. Indeed, some of them were convinced and have affirmed that the Prophet
    Muhammad, peace be upon him, is a messenger from Allah, to the point that one of them even embraced Islam by declaring the Islamic creed otherwise known as the "Shahaadah" and thus became a Muslim.


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    The Qur'aan which was revealed 14 centuries ago mentioned facts only recently discovered by proven scientists. This proves without doubt that the Qur'aan must be the literal word of Allah, revealed by Him to the Prophet Muhammad (sallallahu 'alaihi wa sallam) and it also proves that Muhammad (sallallahu 'alaihi wa sallam) is truly a Messenger and Prophet sent by Allah. It is beyond reason that anyone fourteen hundred years ago would have known these facts discovered or proven only recently with advanced equipment and sophisticated methods. Moreover, the Prophet Muhammad (sallallahu 'alaihi wa sallam) reviewed the Qur'aan with the Angel Jibreel once each year and twice in the last year of his life. Since the Qur'aan was revealed up until this day, there has always been a huge number of Muslims who have memorized all of the Qur'aan, letter by letter. Some of them have been able to memorize all of the Qur'aan by the age of ten. Not one letter of the Qur'aan has been changed for centuries.

    After reading this, I ask the reader the question…. Is it possible that anyone could have wrote this book over 1400 years ago?


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    With This We Conclude And May Allah Accept It As Done Sincerely For His Sake, Ameen
     
    azhar_rahman, Feb 12, 2005
    #337
  21. spidergoat

    spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    54,036
    Shalom Alekum.
    I do have an open mind about Islam, for the most part, it is peaceful, but like several western religions, there are more radical sects. I wonder of you are able to keep such an open mind about your own religion, you have certain preconceptions such as the Koran being scientifically accurate.
     
    spidergoat, Feb 12, 2005
    #338
  22. azhar_rahman

    azhar_rahman Registered Member

    Messages:
    26
    My plans have been cancelled so i can waste my time. Sorry if i offended anyone didnt mean to and i think i misjudged some of you (only a few). I just thought this was another muslim bashing site and took you peeps for idiots but i do think some of you are sad especially vienna and paula.
     
    azhar_rahman, Feb 12, 2005
    #339
  23. azhar_rahman

    azhar_rahman Registered Member

    Messages:
    26
    really have i got misconceptions. okay say if im wrong that the quran is wrong. then why all these nerds and scientist so amazed and in awe of some of the verse's
     
    azhar_rahman, Feb 12, 2005
    #340
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