arfa brane: Now you're mincing words. "Equivalent to" is different from "the same as". I get it that you're trying to make some wiggle room for yourself, but who do you imagine you're fooling? Yes it is. Matter is not a number. Matter is "stuff". You can build a house from matter. You can't build a house from numbers. Are you just trolling, or are you really so dense that you still haven't understood the distinction I've pointed out to you so many times? You haven't acknowledge that you understand what my position is. You just go on as if I never wrote anything. Do you intend to ever deal with what I've put to you, in a honest way? Then I can only include that you're trolling, to prolong a conversation that should have ended pages ago. Why are you doing that? Neither the facility nor the boson is made out of numbers. That suggests to me that neither of them is a number. Sheesh. How difficult is this for you? It's no longer plausible for me to accept that you really still don't understand the distinction. The only remaining conclusions I can draw are (a) you are trolling; or (b) you are thick as a brick. Based on your previous posts (albeit dating back some time on this forum), I am inclined for now to assume that you're not actually stupid, which rules out option (b), leaving only (a). The only remaining question, then, is: why are you trolling? Mass is a unit of measure. If I step on my bathroom scales, they tell me that my mass is 83 kg. The number "83" is a number. The "kilograms" is an arbitrary unit of measure (albeit repeatable), invented by human beings and used for convenience. Thus, "83 kg" is a number (with some units). I just posted my mass to the screen you're reading. Obviously, I'm not on your screen. None of the matter that makes up my body is on or in your computer screen. And yet, you have my mass right there in front of your eyes. How hard is this? Do you need to troll some more? Are you actually a functional idiot? Or what? What's your excuse, arfa brane? Matter is made of particles, yes. Particles have associated masses, yes. Atoms and molecules combined to form macroscopic objects that can be bottled, seen by human beings and weighed. Do you have a bottle full of numbers that can be seen and weighed? No, because numbers are conceptual. Nothing about my body says "83 kg". That number is a concept that gives you a mental picture of how much matter is in my body. It's no more part of my body than the fact that I have an arminess of 2 Jarms. Need to troll some more?