Is rap really a genre of music?

Discussion in 'Art & Culture' started by Facial, Jul 26, 2005.

?

Is rap music?

  1. Yes, rap qualifies as a type of music.

    59 vote(s)
    70.2%
  2. No, it is something else.

    25 vote(s)
    29.8%
  1. Facial Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,225
    According to my classical education of music theory, music is generally defined by :

    1. A melody
    2. A harmony
    3. A rhythm

    I have observed that all genres of music, including classical, rock, jazz, pop, etc. have these qualities.

    However, rap (and sometimes R&B and reggae) are exceptions. You can sort of call this a question similar to whether or not a virus is alive; is rap really a kind of music? Or is it defined in itself, as a sort of rhythmic poetry?
     
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  3. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    24,690
    The definition you learned is racist and elitist. Harmony was one of the very last attributes of music to evolve. Melody itself is not much older. Your teachers would have you believe that the music of many premodern peoples is/was not music.

    It had rhythm and it had tones, but it did not really have melodies. People invented percussion instruments first, and then they tried to mimic the sounds of birds, which are tonal but not necessarily melodic, with primitive flutes and whistles.

    Yes, I too have heard one too many rap songs in a row and exploded into a tantrum screaming, "It took us tens of thousands of years to get to the point where we have [take your choice: Pink Floyd, Richard Strauss, Evanescence, Dave Brubeck], and these guys are taking us back to the stone age, shouting out tuneless chants and banging on drums."

    That may or may not be true, but rap is still music. My mother said the same thing about Little Richard and hers said the same thing about Benny Goodman.

    Why don't your teachers add counterpoint while they're at it? Eventually they'll concoct a definition under which only "classical" music will qualify. According to them, the ten-minute drum solos of the arena concerts of the 1970s were not music. I know a lot of people who think music without vocals and lyrics is lacking something. Others think it should have a steady, danceable rhythm; the flexible tempos of a symphony drive them nuts.

    It's possible that for millennia, the main purpose of music was to support dancing. Most of the cerebral stuff your teachers like would flunk that definition, and rap would pass.
     
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  5. Arquibus Master of Useless Information Registered Senior Member

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    Rap in its best form is music, and I will defend that despite the fact that I don't like it.
     
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  7. Idle Mind What the hell, man? Valued Senior Member

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    What is your background in music? You used the word classical, but do you mean you have a background in Classical Music theory, or did you mean classical in a broader sense?

    Classical music is in a class all on it's own, in that it is defined by sets of rules. Other music is not required to follow any such rules, and is therefore much more loose in their definition of what actually qualifies as music. As such, I would say that yes, rap is indeed a form of music.

    Also, many rap songs have elements of all of the above criteria. While they may not make use of vocal melody or harmony, there certainly exists melodic and harmonious elements to all rap songs.
     
  8. Hapsburg Hellenistic polytheist Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,224
    Yes, Rap is music. It may or may not be very good music, depending on who you ask, but it is music. People that insult rap so blatantly by saying that it's not music really tick me off.
     
  9. Rick Valued Senior Member

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    3,336
    fraggle rocker,
    are you nuts? are you freaking nuts? have you ever heard music from Pink Floyd?

    think before you bang your keyboard's A** dude....

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    and why was racist word in the first reply? no one mentioned any thing about race? the thread had mentioned harmony and stuff. right?

    and Fraggle, do you mean to say if i started a thread about Jazz there would again be racism there? God people! come one! i love Jazz!,...Rock (well,i live for it)
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2005
  10. Rick Valued Senior Member

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    3,336
    Rap: is it Music? i dont know whats music to you.
    Personal Choice: I dont like it.

    Rap has cadence to it, if thats what you want...yeah whatever

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  11. grazzhoppa yawwn Valued Senior Member

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    1,277
    Today's rap is entertainment that involves music. The rap that's played on the radio is a container for music, persona, and sex.

    It's the same concept with any other "genre" that's played on the radio - it is all a container, or marketing word, for things that sell.

    Jamming with some buddies in a garage band is rock. Playing arenas and screaming "you've been a great audience!" or "we love you, [city name]!!!" is marketing pitched as rock music.

    Rapping about how the police in your city are racist is rap. Rapping about smackin' up hoez 'n' shootin' you wit mah nine-milli or AK jus' 'cause you'd be trippin' is marketing.
     
  12. Roman Banned Banned

    Messages:
    11,560
    It was an example, that, even the great musicians of their time were considered by the older generations to be hacks. Have you ever heard Brubeck? He makes Pink Floyd look like fool kids pretending to be musicians.
     
  13. Facial Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,225
    Interesting input. The thing is that the three elements are not biased just on classical music, but also all other forms as well including rock and trance.

    Perhaps then, drums solos and rap do qualify as music. Maybe rhythm is the only essential thing.
     
  14. Rick Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,336
    Trance has melody,harmony and rhythm. Classic rock,psychedelic rock has it too. Pjs and newer forms exhibit the same...
     
  15. 420Joey SF's Incontestable Pimp Valued Senior Member

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    1,189
    Sigh.........there's no point - fuck it.

    Rap owns every form and genre of music.
     
  16. Arquibus Master of Useless Information Registered Senior Member

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    306
    What? How is this? Prove it.
     
  17. Blackrain Registered Senior Member

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    210
    The reason rap owns every from of music is because it sells the most records. Name one artist who's out-sold Tupac, Dr. Dre, Eminem or 50 cent? Cased closed. Thank you and good night. You hate rap beacause you can't dance! And not being able to dance is sad. Because all hot chicks love to dance. And it sucks you can't join them without looking like a fool.
     
  18. Idle Mind What the hell, man? Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,709
    Okay, so we are to judge musical integrity and preference of sound based on what sells the most records?
    Fine. Let's look at the top selling records in America of all time.

    28 Million * Eagles Their Greatest Hits 1971–1975, Eagles (Elektra)
    26 Million * Thriller, Michael Jackson (Epic)
    23 Million * The Wall, Pink Floyd (Columbia)
    22 Million * Led Zeppelin IV, Led Zeppelin (Swan Song)
    21 Million * Greatest Hits Volumes I & II, Billy Joel (Columbia)

    Found here: http://www.infoplease.com/ipea/A0151020.html

    Among the others in the list: Fleetwood Mac, AC/DC, the Beatles, Boston, Hootie and the Blowfish, Elton John, Shania Twain, Alanis Morisette, Backstreet Boys, Britney Spears, and many others. I listed 16 artists, so I apologize if I got carried away instead of just listing one who has outsold the boys you listed.
    Indeed.
     
  19. VossistArts 3MTA3 Registered Senior Member

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    454
    Oh shit do I hate this horrible trend of trying to fit every last sound that qualifies as music into genres. Fuck MTV. The day that people forget this bullshit couldnt come soon enuf if it came last year. Its blasphemy. Just the idea of it. All you need to know about anything you hear as far as music goes is apparent before any weird labels or concepts are stacked over it. Do you like what youre hearing? Does it make you feel nice. Then its music thats good for you and thats that. Why bring it down with genres? I think its reflective of the high levels of neursosis people are feeling these days. Every thing seems so intense, the world is so connected whether prosperous or destructive and both are so abundant. Its like the world is being fed lsd and growth hormone or something. So databasing softwares firms are going mad with business. heh whatever, let them have it. Whether you see the world that way or not, its still a choice. Create a genre to put me in. Just make sure the lid is on tight when you bury me in it.
     
  20. Idle Mind What the hell, man? Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,709
    I think Facial was trying to get feedback on whether or not rap is even music based on the three qualifiers listed. I haven't read any post in this topic about genres, except for those that decided they should hijack this thread and make it about mainstream rap.
     
  21. android nothing human inside Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,104
    Rap is a kind of music, most certaintly, just as it's a kind of poetry. It also reflects moronic values and consequently, attracts morons.
     
  22. Rick Valued Senior Member

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    3,336
    Idle Mind :

    Thanks for clarifying. AC/DC deserves a special mention really... (oh i see you did)...
     
  23. Roman Banned Banned

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    11,560
    To be a little fair, most of those artists on your list have been performing for 20 years.
     

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