MOD NOTE: This is a splinter thread created from a bunch of off topic posts in the "Predictions for Obama's Second Term" thread regarding taxation. Here are a few quotes from Leo Tolstoy in support of Michael's argument: Today, nobody sees, or wishes to see, that in our time the enslavement of the majority of men is based on money taxes, levied on land and otherwise, which are collected by government from the subjects. Money is a new form of slavery, and distinguishable from the old simply by the fact that it is impersonal - that there is no human relation between master and slave. Government is an association of men who do violence to the rest of usAnd a few more quotes: Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Now on to the discussion: A few points 1) If a person is very successful what gives you any right at all to their money? Let me guess? Because they use the roads? I find it funny Americans feel a right to take something from their neighbor 2000 miles away in another State but would never think of extending the same violence to their neighbor 2000 feet away in Canada. Nationalism is a type of superstitious thinking. 2) It's also interesting that no one here would feel comfortable personally pointing a gun at their neighbor and beating the money out of them. But, sure, if it's someone else, wearing a blue-grey SS clown suite with an Official Title - oh, then it's OK. Beat the f*ck out of that 'Greedy" ole bitch. Support of violence is just that. Calling a vote, wearing 'special' clothing, obtaining 'title' doesn't change this fact - all of these are just more forms of superstition. Violence is violence. If you're party to - then you are party to it. 3) People who make a lot of 'money', in a just and moral system, obviously have skill at efficiently distributing wanted goods within that system (by moral I mean there is no rent seeking activities). Why would you take money from this human and give it to another human who's skill is getting elected - primarily by lying to the electorate, pitting one group of humans against another and demagoguing wedge issues? Stop to think about what this wealthy person is going to do with their money? A) Invest B) Save C) Spend All of these things puts that money back into society - and assuming cheating didn't occur, this person was wise and shrewd enough to make their money, they'll likewise apply options A-C for the benefit of society. Lastly, and this I find the most insane - the feeling and argument: We don't have enough money. Money ONLY exists in our minds. Only in our minds. Everyone get that? This game of taking from the 'rich' because they don't pay their fair share is simple slight of hand. You REALLY want to 'tax the rich'? Stop taking their money and ALSO stop using it. Use your own. Problem solved. Now, you'll hear people say: That'll never work - they're right, so long as everyone is stuck believing these insane superstitions it won't. But, once people stop believing the illusions and start believing in what's real, then it will. To the benefit of all of us. I actually except to new forms of money organically arise as the present system collapses in on it'self. There is no shortage of money. It CAN only exist in your mind. That's a fact. Nationhood, Religion, Politics and Money are all well thought out handcrafted superstitions and once you see past them, then real change can happen. Until then, well, I advise raising your kids peacefully and rationally because in a game of insane, I promise you, you will not win.