Is the brain necessary for consciousness?

Discussion in 'Parapsychology' started by Magical Realist, Jan 27, 2014.

  1. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    What are the 7 Laws of Nature?
    https://passionplacement.com/7-natural-laws-fundamentals-to-unlock-growth-in-business-life/

    What are the 5 scientific laws?

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    [quote]What are the five scientific laws? The five most popular scientific laws are Hooke's Law of Elasticity, Archimedes' Principle of Buoyancy, Dalton's Law of Partial Pressures, Bernoulli's Law of Fluid Dynamics and Fourier's Law of Heat Conduction.May 4, 2021[/quote]
    https://science.howstuffworks.com/innovation/scientific-experiments/10-scientific-laws-theories.htm

    Among others.
     
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  3. river

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    https://science.howstuffworks.com/innovation/scientific-experiments/10-scientific-laws-theories.htm

    Among others.[/QUOTE]

    I find No Life in these laws .
     
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  5. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    I find No Life in these laws .[/QUOTE] Life is just biological patterns in motion. When the motion stops the biological entity is dead.

    Life started with chemical reactions like the growth of crystals and as biochemistry evolves, biological processes begin and dynamical life forms emerge and gradually develop more sophistication in expression. (Hazen)

    That is the function of natural selection. Over time natural selection favors patterns that are better adapted to their environment. In living patterns it is the ability to create little growing patterns from mixing genes. Some patterns happen by accident (mutation) and prove superior. Humans seem to be the result of such a beneficial mutation.
    The fusion of two chromosomes, resulting in one larger chromosome (#2) with superior growth potential.

    But life itself already begins in sulphur pools, where cyanobacteria learned to use energy from photosynthesis which is a purely chemical reaction.

    The origins of life on Earth

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    The streaky artwork of masses of cyanobacteria (blue-green algae). Image adapted from: Bobby McKay; CC BY ND 2.0
    https://www.science.org.au/curious/space-time/origins-life-earth#

    The earliest bacteria were part mineral that fed on rocks. Rust is a purely chemical expression of a chemical compound eating metal.

    Does rust eat metal?
    Abiogenesis may have taken millions if not billions of years to transform from chemistry into biochemistry into biology.

    Personally, I see no mystery in that process at all. And so it is with consciousness. It started which chemical reactive processes, evolving in larger more complex senses such as eyes from simple patches (patterns) of light sensitive compounds.




     
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  7. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Seriously? That's a business placement site.

    7 Natural Laws: Fundamentals To Unlock Growth In Business & Life

    1. Do you understand the difference between "The Laws of Nature" and what some marketing monkey calls their "Natural Laws"?
    2. Do you not take any responsibility for reading what you're about to post?


    Really? Did everyone vote on which ones we like? Is science done by popularity?

    Oh. Right. Your sig-line is "Don't blame me; blame my references."


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    Last edited: Sep 29, 2021
  8. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    I take responsibility for what I post in the sub-forum called " parapsychology"
    A detail that you obviously have overlooked by NOT reading what I post.

    Moreover, if you had actually read some of the principles laid out in that link you will find no grounds for your hasty and ill-considered knee-jerk nasty response. It just shows that you have a very narrow perspective on the "business of life" and how it relates to the "business of the universe."
    Of course it is. You are dealing with human beings. I can name you a few superstars in the sciences. There is even an award show called the "Nobel Prize".
    And I believe I have heard you declare that mainstream science is by "consensus", i.e. "popular vote".
    Nononono.........
    My sig-line is, "You have no standing to judge any of my posts unless you read the accompanying evidence in support of my propositions."

    You have not contributed anything of value to this discussion and, as far as I am concerned, you're just a nuisance.

    That's why I placed you on ignore and that's why you are going back on ignore.......click.
     
  9. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    I would posit that an active brain is necessary for cognition (being conscious of something) but not necessary for consciousness it self.
     
  10. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    My contribution is to call out your silly negative-contribution. I did the work so others don't have to waste their own time. The quality of the thread goes up.

    Which is perfect. I don't do this for you; you're lost already. I do this for the benefit of other readers.
     
  11. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    18,612
    Interesting thought.
    But then, whence does consciousness enter the scene?
    Tegmark proposes that the necessary comparing of the passively received and converted data into a stream of internal electrochemical data with data that is already stored in memory, produces the emergent phenomenon of cognitive consciousness.

    The brain actually undergoes a constant series of "eureka" moments, which produces a response of "I know that!", not just as an act of cognition, but as an act of recognition. It allows us to form anticipation of what comes next based on prior experience in memory. Don't we all have experienced the feeling of being familiar with a place we have never been before. This familiarity is triggered by your recognition of an old grandfather clock, or the pattern in a blanket, or a couch. Anything that may have been a comfortable (or traumatic) experience is "recalled" from memory and will trigger a chemical emotional response, as experienced in the past.

    That's why I like the modern concepts of "integrated" and "orchestrated" information theories, which propose consciousness is the result of the processes that yields the emergent self-awareness within the current environment.

    Perhaps an example can be found in the GPT3 interviews, where the AI defines its own abilities, which can only be interpreted as an emergent self-aware consciousness. It is not the hardware that is consciously intelligent, it is the orchestrated processing of the data, which produces consciousness?

    Therefore, the brain is necessary for the processes that yield the conscious experience.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2021
  12. river

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    17,307
    Without Life . The Energy of Living Beings . None of this could happen . AI can not exist , come to be , manifest , without the Living .

    To your last statement ;

    So is the soul .
     
  13. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    IMO, what you call "soul" is your emergent consciousness from the act of thinking (processing data).
    But without thought, there is no you or your thoughts. Therefore no soul.
     
  14. river

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    Soul is your Spirit .
     
  15. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    I disagree. The whole point is that there is no entity that is you, other than your brain. The rest of you is a dynamic microbiome of which you are only 10 % human, or if you want to count genes, the human genes are only 1 % of the total organism.

    Human microbiome
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_microbiome#

    IMO, mathematics is the "essence" of the universe. It is the single independent form of logic that is demonstrably true.
     
  16. river

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    Life Energy Evolves . The Intellect Evolves .
     
  17. river

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    You only wish it could be but its not . The physical is the essence of the Universe .
     
  18. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    The physical is the expressed essence of the universe.....

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  19. river

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    This expressed essence being mathematical .
     
  20. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Yes indeed. The mathematical essence is expressed (manifested) through the physical patterns.
     
  21. river

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    How so ?

    Life breaks the patterns .
     
  22. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Natural selection reinforces patterns. Entropy destroys patterns.
    The dynamic imbalance is the "life force" (elan vital).

    Entropy
    https://www.mdpi.com/1099-4300/22/6/648/htm
     
  23. river

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    Natural selection is reinforced patterns , through experience . In any environment .

    Intellect and Mind Evolve .
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2021

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