Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Chronologically stacked 2D temporal planes. No I didn't. If anything I said "temporal planes" and the chronology of universal NOW is measured in 2D slices (planes) of time. In the illustration "x" and "y" compromise 1 "horizonal " spatial plane of NOW, "t" is the vertical temporal stacking of the horizontal spatial NOWS. You introduced the "thought experiment" of placing "observers" (alarm clocks) in relative positions on the horizontal spatial plane, no? No no, you can't get away with that. The present consists of a single horizontal slice of spatial (physical) existence on the vertically stacked slices of NOWs Your introduction of the physical "past" to the equation of the "present NOW". Because the "present" is not a 3D object. There is no temporal "past present" except when you introduce a spatial observer. Then you get a spatial past present experienced only by the observer. Remove the observer and there is only NOW. That is your argument, not mine. But the doppler effect is a good way to illustrate it. ======================(train travelling -->)=================== Observer A<_ _ _ _ _ _ _ [------- Sound source -------] .............> Observer B Both observers get a subjectively false experience of the true pitch of the sound. And so it is with time. IOW time has an objective NOW . Observers experience a subjective relative NOW depending on their POV. It is only real to the observer and not necessarily to the whole. It is relative to the POV. That is all you have been talking about. Compensate for the relativity introduced with the POV of an individual observer (each clock is adjusted to compensate for time lag SOL over long distances of observation). That is a subjective approach. Objectively there is no time lag over the entirety of the present spatial plane. I think I addressed all those questions. I am glad you admitted to the introduction of physical observers in the analysis of a temporal dimension, which introduces a differential equation. The thing is that your description admits there is no such thing as Time at all, but is merely a subjective experience of observational phenomena. Actually I agree with that. I believe time is an emergent property of duration of a chronological event in a timeless permittive nothingness. So you can assign a time frame (timeline) to everything that has an observable duration. Question: does time exist without an observer? Can the Universe be its own observer and experience its own NOW?