the barycentre of the Sun/Jupiter system lies~ 7% outside or is that much greater greater than the radius from the center of the sun. so: it appears that the planet describes a different sweep through space than the distance from the sun's center when it is directly measured. Is there a sidereal view to planetary orbits? or?
Just as there is no preferred frame of reference for anything else in this universe, you are correct. A siderial day is something averaged over a number of days, and even then occasionally, a leap second must be added to correct for things like the Earth's rate of rotation slowing down, perturbations of the Earth's orbit about the Sun, etc. A siderial year, the same thing, obviously. A barycenter, likewise requires that even more massive objects at great distances be ignored in order to determine precisely where it is for a more local system. Objects with a great deal of inertia tend to be moving at a slower relative rate with respect to anything else, but until or unless everything else falls into it and comes to rest, even this state of motion is not absolute. Even at 100% accretion, the whole thing still no doubt rotates. There would be no other motion to compare it to, and anyone's guess as to how time dilation would vary on its surface or EH. No such thing as absolute space. No such thing as absolute time dilation, either. The instant of NOW at the centers of particles of bound energy and the all pervading Higgs field (zero quantum rotation and 100% entanglement) does exist, but that's about it for absolutes in a universe of time and energy transfer events. Great question, Nebel. Could G-d create a universe so big that even the speed of light appears to be standing still in the big picture? Evidently, the answer is 'yes'.
at least the movement through time comes to a halt at the speed of light. what I was inquiring about is, we measure the aphelion, the perihelion, the mean from inside our viewpoint to the center of the sun. but viewed from perspective the stars, the planet Jupiter traces out a different area, rotating around at the barycenter. how does that change the values of the aphelion for example?
Why the area swept out by a planet is of interest.? : one of the first laws of planetary motion, by J.Kepler, dealt with that. If the Earth orbit would be measured around the barycenter of the Sun/Jupiter system, and during the Jupiter year, the area of the earth orbit, the diameter of the orbit, the radius, would be seen to be 5% bigger, and so would be the then newly minted Sidereal AU = 146342270 km instead of 145597871 km.--so,-- if a move to alternate or pseudo is called for, why not?
sorry, too late to edit #4, but the difference between the AU and the Sidereal AU is .5% not 5% and it would work out to 150.342270 km , that is the half of the ~ outermost points, or Sidereal Aphelia in the Earth's orbit about the Sun's varying " bary" position.
Aphelia is furthest from the Sun. Perihelia is closest to the Sun. My only point strictly related to the thread being, the Sun also moves relative to the center of the Milky way whilst we are approaching or receding from it, and so all of that nine significant digit positional accuracy is really moot, whether the Sun's "barycenter" moves or wobbles as a result of larger planets like Jupiter orbiting it or not. Even the much simpler three body problem has not been solved for the general case. Only a few special harmonic orbital conditions have exact solutions. In our solar system, the orbital dynamics are much too complex to think that nine significant digit accuracy has any real meaning. Solar flares many times more massive than all the orbiting planets combined occasionally perturb the Sun's barycenter more than Jupiter does, but it may also take tens of millions of years for such fluctuations to reach the Sun's core or to have an effect that could be measured to such accuracy. Equal orbital areas swept out in equal time is Kepler's third law, which is nonetheless quite accurate enough to predict planetary orbital trajectories without taking a lot of perturbations into account.
I assume you mean Coronal Mass Ejections and not Solar Flares. I think your claim that a SF (CME) can be many times more massive than all of the planets combined is way off! CMEs can eject billions of tons of matter from the sun but no where near the mass of Jupiter alone, which is ~1 x 10^24 metric tons!
Dan, this is the feeler I am putting out. Since the area law is purely a mathematical construct, unlike the other 2 Kepler laws, which can still be used to calculate small body movements, The area law, nevertheless gives insights into relationships of orbital mechanics. There is a different area swept out by our, or any, planet by its orbit around the sun, and the area swept out over time by the orbits as traced by the planets around the sun as seen in its "wobble" and of course the greater sidereal aphelia. . I agree, the nine digit accuracy would only hold if the Sun's to barycenter position could be plotted accurately. Origin, so if the answer is yes, I have a haunch that this eccentricity, and sidereal orbit size can be seen in some geometric pattern, and would in part explain the stability that allowed time for us to be here. (I can not even find data on the range of the Sun's combined planet barycenter movement.
It takes millions of years for a photon to migrate from the core of the Sun to the photosphere, but solar neutrinos might offer a means of plumbing the innermost solar barycenter. AMANDA and ICE CUBE aren't pointed in that direction, but both the Sudbury neutrino observatory and the equivalent Japanese neutrino detector (super kamiokande) are both capable of providing the raw data for doing your proposed analysis. Good luck, nebel.
I had more in mind a source where the positions of the planets are plotted and analysed to determine where the combined bary center would be at a given time, i.e. all the planets in conjunction or on the opposite sides. or neutralizing their gravitational influence to give maximal and minimum range of the sun's movement. Luck is with the prepared, thank you.
