Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by Atom, Aug 19, 2007.
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That was just to point out that a country can do well without religion in every aspect. I don't see the point in researching all of the questions you raised, if you choose to ignore it so be it.
Yes, you only said something like "Well I am a Muslim", suggesting you agree with the title of the thread. I haven't seen a straight answer yet, although I might have missed it. If so, please point out where.
If the suicide rate is higher and the people progressively breed less, it's really natural selection they have to worry about, not religion.
Actually I did answer the question directly, but if you can't be bothered, neither can I.Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
edit: I see how my reply may have seemed ambiguous, so I'll reply here: I think Islam is a good religion, but I have met people from several other religions who are also good, so I think all religions have the potential for good; ultimately I think, religion is important in society, without religion society progressively becomes fractured and aimless, focusing exclusively on materialism and breeding discontent.
Fair, although the two things do not quite require the same effort.
I'm going to guess that you are in favor of the statement "Islam Must Rule The World", in which case a discussion is pointless anyway. I'm not going to convince you otherwise and you are not going to convince me otherwise.
I can agree with the assertion that religion is basically good, I also agree with the morality of modern religions. I just dont think that "without religion society progressively becomes fractured and aimless, focusing exclusively on materialism and breeding discontent" is true. People do not need religion do have good morals and values. I take myself as an example as well as lots of people I know, friends, family.
I'm sure I could find exceptions to every rule; however, I am talking about social implications, not personal "feelings".Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Of course there are exceptions, I'm not denying that. I am talking about social implications as well. Being good and helpful towards others, don't do anything to another that you wouldn't want done to yourself and all that. I'm pretty sure I am as 'good' as any religious person.
Look, you said that to be muslim you had to believe in trade. I'm just saying that means capitalism, which is not a proper social system.
Voila, monoculture! And here I thought that was a bad thing.
Water off a duck's back.
Imaginary convo. Seriously - you're not saying the persecution of the untouchables started with the Brits?
Say on, mushmouth.
Seeing as in this thread is going no where other than to a big fish fry - I thought I'd bring up something I thought was funny.
So I was having a drink with some friends at the bar and the TV was showing the South Park episode where Comedy Central wouldn't let Trey and Matt show Mohammad getting butt rammed - for fear that some of the more fanatical of Islamic adherents would go on yet another killing spree in Pakistan (that is unless you are a singing slave girl - then tradition has it it's actually OK to commit murder). Anyway, the screen goes black and says as much when one of the girls at the table said::huh: "Who is Mohammad?"
I said "!??!?!" You know "Mohammad"
Me: Do you know Jesus?
Me: Do you know Islam
Her: Nope - I'm Buddhist.
I was kind of flabbergasted.
She asked if there was something she should know about Mohammad and I thought about all this crap on this thread, I was thinking, about how Mohammad sentenced that poor singing girl to death - all for poking fun at him, or how there was a total loss of human art in Islam. I was thinking of how the Qur'an endorses Slave ownership. That the religion supports the taxation of people for their personal beleif. That the guy who started the whole thing was a 55 year old polygamist who married a pre-teen and himself owned many slaves. If he were alive today he'd be jailed for human rights abuses, murder and pedophilia. He'd be sent to a psychiatric hospital for hearing God in his head. Not a person here would think highly of the person. Not Muslim or non-Muslim.
I said ??? ??? hmmm .. I guess not.
Just as Christians think it was great for the Holy Ghost to kill all the innocent first born Egyptian sons, Muslims think Mohammad was the cat's meow and any killing he did was equally as wonderful. There existed this wondrous fairy time when the Just Caliph ruled over a land full of warm and fuzzy milk and honey.
26+ pages later and the people who have the crack-pot notion a world under Islam would be great still think so and those that don't don't.
Even the Muslims here who think it would be a stupid idea still think it's a stupid idea - so the Muslims here were not able to offer anything to convince other Muslims it would be a good idea and we who are pro-secular democray were not able to convince those who want a theocracy otherwise either.
That sort of says something doesn't it?
Ok, since I'm not gonna read tons of pages and not have a clue what's going on, let me say this.
For all of you blaming Islam as the source of the issue, you are idiots. Sorry, but you are.
This is for a number of reasons:
1) Islam is no different than Christianity in terms of what is stated in the text, as in defense, violence, etc, discrimination against homosexuals and women is also in the Bible.
2) Why was there not Al-Qaida, or terrorist groups in the past, long past? Answer me this, and the only thing you can say is that it took place in a different, more peaceful and prosperous time period.
3) Is it really Islam? Or is it the tyrants? The politics? The young men with ruined countries looking for some way of redemption?
There are tyrants, these tyrants want some sort of justification for their actions, so naturally, they bend the word of God, so that it looks like the suicide bombers are martyrs, when in fact they are poisoned men.
It says no where in the Quran to blow yourself up. To kill innocent women and children. To cause widespread panic, and to disrupt the peace. The ONLY violence justified in the Koran, is defense. And that's it, yup, ONLY defense.
Was 9/11 defense? Hell no, but that's not what Osama said. He wants to use Islam as his tool. To make himself look like a martyr.
So, with that said, I believe it is these tyrants and the present situation that leads to this terrorism. There is war, poverty, crime, etc.........THE PERFECT SITUATION for one like Osama to take charge.
Ok, now there is lots of war, etc, so here Osama comes along:
"Hey, let me cover up my terrorism with the shield of Islam"
*Desperate people looking for some means of redemption*
" Sure dude!"
To put in plainly, I believe that the current chaos of the Middle East causes the desperate to go to desperate measures. This is not a war of Islam, this is a war for revenge. By the terrorists, by the political drunks, that's why the groups exist.
But, like I have said before, they cannot act like a mafia. Islam is used as a Shield, when in fact I guarantee you, if hell exists, Osama has a reservation already booked.
You also need to remember that, it is very possible to take the Bible, and bend it so that you create Christian extremist terrorists. Say Europe was in chaos, and the people were desperate. No doubt, people will be preaching about "Christianity's war of bla bla bla"
You're definition is derived from a religious concept and has no real meaning in reality.
Morality is based entirely on evolution and existed long before Islam, Christianity or any other religion.
I don't expect you'd believe that though, as it would contradict your religion.
And we all know what you do when that happens. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
And, I too am sorry, but you've earned an infraction for that. Please endeavor to refute the assertions against your superstitious beliefs without resorting to calling others "idiots."
Agreed. However, those deluded by the superstitions of Christianity have found ways to justify their unwillingness to behave in a Bronze and Iron Age manner toward their fellow human by using semantic arguments about "New Law" vs. "Old Law," etc. Moreover, there no longer exist Christian theocracies in which their superstitions can be born out to the literal degree in which they are in biblical mythology. Nor do Christians allow themselves to be held to mythical law before secular law whereas those deluded by the superstitions of Islam adhere to Sharia Law based on Koranic mythology first and the laws of secular governments second. This is reinforced by the theocratic nations in which Islam originates.
Finally, there is no doubt that there exist fundamentalists who would be completely happy to return Christianity to the backward and medieval state in which it once was where heretics, homosexuals, and infidels were put to death in the same barbaric and backward manner that Muslims believe today. Surely you don't suggest that to be a homosexual or an apostate in Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, or Iran are decisions one can be open about without fear of his or her life?
The only thing? You mean I'm prevented from mentioning that globalization and technology have made their existence easy and convenient as well as efficient (cell phones, laptops, internet, mass transportation, relaxed borders following the cold war, etc, etc.)? Can I not mention the fact that the fundamentalist theocracy that rose to power in Afghanistan (the Taliban) along with fundamentalist religious leaders in Iran, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, etc. have gave their superstitions the fuel they needed in order to use yet another tool of combatance against the West? Can I not mention the terrorist organization of Omar Qadafi, who used Islam as reason to detonate an airliner over Lockerbie, Scotland? Was Abu Nidal not an Islamic terrorist organization? Was not the PLO? I'm unaware of any Christians, Jews, or Buddhists who were members.
Moreover, why is it even necessary to show that terrorism existed in the past or not? The existence of Muslim terrorists today vs. the past in no way validates or invalidates the insanity of Islamic superstitions. The behavior of Islamic governments, these theocracies that have committed acts of inhumanity against their own people is evidence of the violent nature of Islam. Islam is anything but a religion of peace. Its a superstition of hate. A delusion that creates bigotry.
It really is Islam. The tyranny, hatred, violence, bigotry, misogyny, etc. are all made possible by the superstitions found in the fantasy book known as the Koran. And your continued attempts to compare Islam to Christianity and to point out that biblical mythology contains violence, bigotry, etc amounts to a red herring. There is no argument that these things are present in Christianity. And they are problems that freethinking and secular people are working to combat in countries like the United States where there are nutters that would see their religious superstitions codified into governmental laws and policies, creating the same theocratic nightmare that exists in the Muslim world.
Then your god is pathetic or non-existent if it allows so many tyrants to get away with influencing the minds of millions of those deluded by the superstitions surrounding your god. If there were a handful of "extremists" who were causing problems, then it would be another issue. It isn't. There are thousands of instances of violence on women, apostates, infidels, homosexuals, other muslims, christians, buddhists, hindus, etc, etc. every year. Suicide bombings, car bombs, roadside bombs, airliners flown into skyscrapers, bombs detonated in train tunnels, honor killings, apostates put to death, buddhists and hindus arrested and tortured or put in "reform" camps because they refuse to be Muslim, etc, etc, etc.
I've no more time for the rest of your ramblings. Perhaps later.
It is Islam? Really? Coming from a Christian, a believer of myth, who are you to tell me this?
No, it's the tyrants, the politics, and the current destruction= young men to take up arms in order for them to live for something
So, SkinWalker, you phail.
"My God".......Jesus? So Jesus is pathetic?
I'll be happy to see the evidence for this claim.
Let me give you a hint. This is a primarily ATHEIST site. I get the feeling that you may also be an atheist, its okay if you are, you can still be Syrian. The only Christians over here will loudly declare it at regular intervals.Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Well, since all animal physiology and behaviors are formed through the unremitting sieve of evolution, why would you suspect otherwise?
I call myself alawite, but I dont know the first thing about alawism
I'm a national, I love my country, and I'd fight for my country over my religion.
Animals eat their young when they are low on food. They rape and murder without having the concept of rape and murder or that it is wrong. Evolutionary behaviour is, like memes, assigning a philosophical construct an empirical value, ie what I call the "new science". Blah blah blah.
Separate names with a comma.