# ISU (Infinite Spongy Universe) Model - SciForums Update 2018

Discussion in 'Alternative Theories' started by quantum_wave, Jan 9, 2018.

1. ### exchemistValued Senior Member

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Yeah except that any "model" river has will be demonstrably wrong.

As for your other worlds, I am reminded of this:

3. ### river

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Highlighted

But not proven to be wrong .

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Just the usual...Alex was being facetious, and it has gone totally over river's head.

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What ever .

Not to me .

8. ### Xelasnave.1947Valued Senior Member

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Although I was not trying to be disrespectful to river or unkind... His different approach triggered me to wonder how there may be different models elsewhere. We do not yet have a quantum theory of gravity but elsewhere maybe they do and approach gravity from a different model that has served us.
I have no criticism of river other than he is often too cryptic such that I often think his meaning is not conveyed successfully, but it is that cryptic approach which in my case I feel prevents me from analysing the merit or lack thereof in respect to ideas that he does present.
River perhaps before thinking outside the box could take more time to understand what is inside the box.
And I can sympathize with River in so far as I spent years considering how gravity may work totally ignorant that the model provided by General Relativity existed or that Le Sage had already back in 1745 already started work on such a pressure model. I felt somewhat foolish when I finally looked inside the box.
I think the advice I could offer to anyone thinking outside the box is first to understand what goodies are in the box and not to waste time or credibility in any effort to ignore or discredit what is well established but to make sure what is outside the box fits with that on the inside.
I still have the belief that gravity must work as a form of universal pressure and that if so nothing in that approach need contradict GR...the next realisation one must embrace for outside the box work is that until your "model" meets the requirements of a scientific model it will just be a neat idea and so it is worthwhile to bear that in mind and never present it as anything more than casual speculation.

I am sure river is learning and will benefit from being encouraged to learn what is inside the box and always consider how what we know may apply to what we do not yet know.
Alex

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While river certainly needs to learn about what is in the box, that never stops him from making so many certain proclamations about our universe.

I have dealt with river a lot longer then you Alex, and if there was really any hope or intention of river learning what is inside the box, I would be the first to offer my congrats. One of our reputable, knowledgable members, Dave, has been persisting with trying to get river to see the light, for as long as I have, to no avail. The facts are that it appears he is totally tied into some anti science nonsense, and of course Electric/Plasma universe hypothesis, and pushes it at every opportunity, despite being debunked three decades ago.

The many one liner posts of his confirm my sad diagnosis.

ps: If you make your way to the big smoke on Friday Alex, I'll be up Easts Leagues at Bondi Junction...you can buy me a schooner for my birthday!!!

10. ### Xelasnave.1947Valued Senior Member

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Thank you for your kind invitation but I will be heading North tomorrow. I would have come over for sure it would be so good to have a chat and a couple of beers.

I just had to get out yesterday and decided to go the The Epping club..RSL related but not the RSL type club I remember, so I thought lunch in the restaurant...Only $20 for a fantastic Chicken Snitz in luxurious surroundings and so after a great meal I took a look in the gaming room..I was blown away... the machines, even roulette and black jack which I had never seen before...anyways I noticed a poker machine with a game on it that I would play with my shipwright mate ( his idea never mine) you know$20 bucks each sortta approach, and we, he, always did well so I thought why not even though I am by myself, $50 in and bang two features saw me walk out with$150 cash so I enjoyed my meal and flutter. I may go there again for lunch today as they are sortta paying for it...and the waitress was such a nice lady ..it was entirely pleasant...

As to river...at least believing in the electric universe he may learn something certainly much more than getting involved in ancient fairly tales and yet to be established creators...I must say I have never really looked into the electric universe other than their Sun idea..but I can't remember anything so it did not grab me.
I find just learning what's in the box keeps one well occupied.
I still like the idea of gravity working like a pressure, I like the idea of a steady state universe but one needs to remember scientific method and the concept of models and predictions but most of all to realise that someone who specialises in a field and puts out peer reviewed papers just may know a little more than what one learns from YouTube...although it is a wonderful thing ...I learn a little there...how to make Moonshine and where to look for gold and lots of good astrophotography help.

You have a great birthday..I really wish I could come over but I need to be up there on Friday and can't put it off.

Alex

11. ### exchemistValued Senior Member

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Yes I think this is an excellent point. The key to developing a new model of anything in science is first to understand, properly, the current one, to have a really sound understanding of where it works and where it may fall short. Without that, there is the obvious danger of making wrong claims about the supposed defects of the current model and then looking a fool.

This is a particular danger with highly mathematical models, such as General Relativity or Quantum Theory. Sadly, the internet is rife with cranks who refuse to accept the counterintuitive aspects of relativity, simply because they are unable or unwilling to grasp the mathematics of the model. Tony Yuan is one current example. I don't think river is one of these, as he has no idea how to think at all, even in words, let alone mathematics. But he is a very special case.

12. ### quantum_waveContemplating the "as yet" unknownValued Senior Member

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I've said this before, here and/or elsewhere; we are assuming that across the infinite and eternal universe there are an infinite number of big bangs occurring all the time, and big bang arenas are continually forming, expanding, converging, and forming new big crunches, and new crunches collapse and bang to renew and perpetuate the eternal cycle.

Within an expanding arena, stars and galaxies form, life is generated from the interactions of the elements, and various life forms arise and adjust to hospitable environments. Highly advanced life forms evolve and intermingle across vast reaches of space, assuring the maintenance of actively evolving varieties of life across space and time.

The universe is grand, the part we see is tiny, the possibilities are endless, and our imaginations need never run out.

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The trick is remembering that beyond a certain epoch or point, all we are doing, and can do at this time, is speculating.

14. ### quantum_waveContemplating the "as yet" unknownValued Senior Member

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This is the description of the Alternative Theories sub-forum: "Revolutionary physics, alternative medicine, creationism/intelligent design and more ..."

Most of my stuff qualifies in the "and more" category. I like to say, "Almond Joys have nuts, Mounds don't, and sometimes I feel like a nut, sometimes I don't". It is up to you to decide which times are which, lol

.

4559,

Last edited: Jul 15, 2020
15. ### exchemistValued Senior Member

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"4559"? Wot dat?

16. ### quantum_waveContemplating the "as yet" unknownValued Senior Member

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That is the number of times the thread has been viewed.

4615

17. ### James RJust this guy, you know?Staff Member

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So, if all contributors to the thread were unique, that would mean that about 4% of viewers were interested enough to comment. Actually, less than that since many contributors are repeat-posters in the thread.

18. ### quantum_waveContemplating the "as yet" unknownValued Senior Member

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My post #213 was in response to the previous post by Exchemist. I was in the habit of including the number of “views” in my posts to gage the amount of the most recent activity from post to post. There hasn’t been much interest, but this is in Alternative Theories section, and is talk about a personal cosmological model.

5073

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20. ### quantum_waveContemplating the "as yet" unknownValued Senior Member

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Thank you, Alex. What I think is that you are the thinker, and I appreciate your post and the great link.

By way of a brief recap of my current thinking, the universe is infinite and has always existed, and has always generated intelligent life where ever the conditions have allowed. There was no beginning, there will be no end, and life will always include great thinkers like us,

5163,

Last edited: Aug 16, 2020
21. ### Xelasnave.1947Valued Senior Member

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When you are right you are right but really I think you are more wonderful than me but rather than say you could be wrong I will agree that indeed I am the most wonderful.

I find the proposition that the universe must be infinite the most logical conclusion but we must remember we can never know other than to rely on the Devine messages I receive on a daily basis.

What I found interesting is that the discussion re inflation is taking place at all. But certainly if it gets any traction you can be well pleased.
I often think that there are actually very few original thinkers and when you spot a new idea you look back what you have written over the years and find that you thought about it and said so well before the tide turned.

The problem with your idea is there is no room for god the way folk think of him at least...but I reject those views and say that you show he is grander than anyone ever thought running such a huge opperation.

OK what's next..you have basically laid out cosmology as it must be..you need something else...my favorite is a theory of everything...how everything works..I mean I know but I won't say a thing as that is like spoiling the ending of a book.

You can't ask it but how does gravity work at a mechanical level...I think that is the big one...how does the "message" of gravity work?

How does the force of attraction work...my question is..is there really such a force?

Anyways you may need a new project.

Keep safe and no slacking ok.

Alex

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