Ivy League students sign a petition to repeal the First Amendment

Trigger Warning, the following video may cause Twitter-PTSD due to the implicit microagression.


LOL.... rate of positive response?
About 1 signature a minute.

I suppose it's not really fair given most Government School graduates (and their Government Unioned Teachers) have never read the US Constitution or any of its amendments.


Expert: Most US College Freshmen Read at 7th Grade Level

 

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WIKI: Sticks and Stones (nursery rhyme)

It is reported to have appeared in The Christian Recorder of March 1862, a publication of the African Methodist Episcopal Church, where it is presented as an "old adage" in this form:

Sticks and stones will break my bones
But words will never harm me.

"Sticks and Stones" is an English language children's rhyme. It persuades the child victim of name-calling to ignore the taunt, to refrain from physical retaliation, and to remain calm and good-natured. (pretty much everything we no longer stand for as a Nation).

--o--
Never Ending War and Too Rich To Fail, ahhhh..... life on The Tax Farm in modern day 'We Droned Some People' Amoorika.

 

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I wonder what this means.
That government is bad at education? If so, who would do it better?
That joining a union (which, incidentally, is not a government institution)render teachers less competent? If so, how?
That all governments in general, or recent state governments in particular, have discouraged the reading of the constitution in public schools? Is this so?

 

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Well it's not like right wing fanatics haven't misrepresented stuff before, selectively edited videos, etc.

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They do it all the time. The do it to fool the fools, and guess what, it works as evidenced by your post.

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If we had a free market we'd find out. Cars aren't a one size fits all. Either is clothing. Either are smart phones. Either is education. In order to find the best solution we need a free market and pedagogical competition.

IOWs, there is no 'Who'. That's not how it works.

That isn't my argument. Government monopoly over education has done what all rent-seeking monopolies do, rise the cost of the service/good via regulatory capture while driving down quality to near historic lows. According to the DoED, 1 in 5 Government school graduate is unable to competently read and write after a little over a DECADE of Government schooling.

Private Unions are perfectly fine, as they can run their businesses OUT of business. Government Unions are immoral as we're stuck overpaying for monopolistic rent-seekers who use regulatory capture to monopolize the market.

You can look up the stats for yourself, the DoED publishes them.

 

Meanwhile, in microaggression, 1st Amendment-free Thailand news....
NewYork Times: Thai man may go to prison for 37 years for insulting Kings Dog.

Take a look into our future America, which is simply returning to the historic trend-line. Expect Too Big To Term Limit in the next 50 years. Such thinking will be perfectly normal to the Tax Chattel born in the USSA.

 

IOWs, there is no 'Who'. .[/quote]
If there is no who, then what? What entity or organization holds the pedagogical competition? In what venue? According to what rules? What organization or entity judges the contestants - assuming that there are any contestants? I mean, what would be the prize teachers compete for? Where would the competing teachers get their training? Surely, human beings (who) must be involved at some level.
It sounds rather difficult to arrange for a population of over 300 million, in vastly different geographical and economic circumstances. And, of course, I have to wonder how the resultant 'product' (in this case the education) would be marketed. If it followed the Detroit model, it would still need to be bailed out by the federal government in a few years. (The final product, the graduate, would have to be marketed differently - perhaps like apparel or electronic devices, but I foresee problems with that, too.)

I'm still not seeing the problem posed by teacher's unions. Are they, in fact, government organizations? You have not demonstrated this, nor shown a distinction between private and public trade unions, why one is more moral, and how their relative morality affects the quality of reading.

Which stats can I look up?

This didn't help.

Could you simply explain - I mean explain simply - how and by what agency you think the education system should be 1. organized 2. governed 3. funded 4. administered 5. staffed and 6. evaluated.

 

The commnity, but first system must change so there is assignable responsibility as in Norway.
Following is part of post here: http://www.sciforums.com/threads/th...r-more-worse-news.105212/page-56#post-3318916

"... In Norway (and most if not all of Scandinavia) when students finish the first grade, both they and the same teacher move up together for the next grade. Etc. thru graduation from elementary school. This simple no cost difference from US schools has an enormous benefit.

First, there is no passing a problem child on to the next grade teacher as you are the next grade teacher too. If Johnny can't read or do math, there is no passing him on to the next teacher. All know who is responsible - no ducking / hiding responsibilities, as in US schools.

Secondly, at the start of every grade after the first the teacher on day one, knows her students well. She knows, for example John is two grades ahead in math but having trouble with his foreign language (All will be fluent in three, two not Norwegian, languages by eight grade). But Jane, who already has mastered three by fourth grade is a half a grade behind in math. So teacher can on some days have them helping each other in the back of the class room during say knitting class (even the boys take that).

Thirdly, thus educating the class is a mutual group project and responsibility - all learn at an earlier age to help each other - take responsibility for the welfare of others. Later in life, they still think it completely proper, correct and DESIRABLE to pay ~50% of their income in taxes so ALL have good education and health opportunities.

That "zero cost" better path is not taken* in the US and that has made all the difference! Why Norwegians would never spend their oil and gas wealth income on only the current generation, not even to lower their current taxes (Alaskans have negative tax - each man, woman and child gets $1900 from the government, with none set aside for generations not yet born.) ... "

* US is too egotistical - US way is the best possible in eveything. Can not learn from others, so health care's total cost is at least twice European, Canadian, et. al. and gives two to three years less life expectancy, etc.

It is no longer common in the bigger cities, but in small towns, when an exceptionally wonderful teacher retires after five or so cycles of producing well educated students and solid citizens, the Mayor of the town will hold a "thank you dinner." Tickets are sold (pay what you can) and several thousand dollars (in kroner) will be raised and given to the teacher, who has produced more than 200 well educated citizens.

I married an Oslo region elementary school teacher in the middle of her second cycle of kids. I was the most hated man in the community as I was taking a very good teacher to the USA. More than 30 years later she still received Christmas letters from about half of her first cycle students, telling what and how they were doing. One man from her first class always said at end of his letter (In translation): "If you ever have any financial need, just let me know. You made me the success I am today." (He owned a fleet of small oil tankers that could go up the narrow fiords after the bigger ocean tankers had off-loaded oil and or diesel etc. into his ships.) No American teacher has ever received such a letter, or even, annual up dates from half her elementary school student, telling for example that they had become a grandmother for the second time. Hell, most American don't even know the name of their first grade teacher!

Many women / mothers work outside the home in Norway. Their children, who have the same teacher through out elementary school, call her:
"My Second Mother." One mother of a child in my wife's second cycle was especially mad at me. She had timed her pregnacy so her second child would be part of my wife's second cycle as she had had a child in the first cycle and knew what an exceptionally good teacher my wife was.

SUMMARY: When who is uniquely responsible for the education of a couple of hundred citizen is clearly known, you don't need some "evaluation commission."
The whole town knows which teachers were exceptionally good. All are very good as to teach you need to have university degree in pedagogy, but naturally some are better than others. My wife did not just teach in the class room - she took her kids all over Oslo: to museums, world famous Vigland park, public meetings, etc.

BTW, this concern for others instilled in elementary school is why:

I have been to four Scandinavian countires - What impressed me most was what I did not see:
There is no trash thrown in the streets or woods - they love their country! Americans profess that too, but actions speak louder than words.

 

That sounds very good in some ways. The teachers don't get stuck in one level of subject matter, which could get pretty boring. On the other hand, they have to start over every eight years.
The students get to stay with a beloved teacher (like my Miss Aranka... of course I remember! *and that was in 1953) ... or they could get stuck for the duration with someone like my very competent second grade teacher, Mrs. Evan, with whose personality mine clashed at least twice a day. That would have been sheer hell - and I would never have had a chance to meet wonderful Miss Lilley, or stern but funny Mr. Stewart, or ... or be exposed to different groups of students and different styles of teaching.
(I assume secondary school and college are still specialized? )
I believe there is merit in both models. The trick is to balance emotional and intellectual needs of students and the social structure of the community.
And always, to train the teachers well, match them to the environment, and design an excellent curriculum.

*She did receive letters from students she had taught in the one-room village school, 40 years before, and visits from more recent pupils in the city. What makes you think no American teacher gets Christmas cards or thank-you letters? It's not that uncommon to make a deep impression in one year!


But isn't the education in Norway under government auspices? Different brands are not offered by competing private companies?

 

On (1): Yes that is desirable but more important for a functional adult society is to build at early age, the sense of being part of a mutually caring community,* each helping the others as they can (willingly pay high taxes so health care FOR ALL is both good and free, etc. for education). The US system does not do that - it is good at making individuals who look out for "number one."

I don't know, but think there may be a Catholic school in Oslo. When born, you are a registered member of the Norwegian state church (A verion of Luthernism) but can undo that later; However, few bother to do so as for most Norwegian, the church is for weddings, and funerials, Christmass eve service etc. not very important in daily life.

On (2): I think it is, but it dose have some local guidance too. Strangely, as Norway has a small population, Norway has three Norwegian languages that are used (and as teacher may be sent where needed, she is fluent in all). Norway was rulled by the Swedes and or Danes for several hundred years and the urbanites adopted a corrupted version of the language of their rullers, but the country folk did not. In last few decades the intelectual of language have tried to create a merged version (New Norsk). So the language of instrucion is different in different parts of the country, for elementary students, at least. Most become fluent in English and at least one other European language (German or French or both usually but my wife knew some Italian too).

* Having a powerless "figure head" king or queen helps to do that too.

 

Surely balancing the child's and the community's needs does exactly that - no?

Yes, but only secondary schools. Apparently, private secondary schools are also allowed now. Not elementary, though.

That's still a local - municipal - government, or board of education under the authority of the ministry of education, which also sets teacher qualification requirements and regulates the day-cares and kindergartens.
Schools are not independent commercial entities, each marketing a different product.

 

No. You are missing the idea, which you may not think desirable, of producing a community with the common "all for one and one for all" POV. You seem to think all the children needs are the same so can "balance them with the community's needs"

The US education system produces individuals who often don't care much for the welfare of others - most focus on what is best for themselves, like lowest possible taxes. The Norwegian system produce people with more interest in the community's welfare - especially quality health and education (for even the most poor) so they pay with little complaining much higher taxes than the typical American does ~50% of income. It is not called a "social democracy" without reason.

Don't misunderstand: there are some very rich Norwegians - owners of a significant fraction of the world's ships, both cruise and cargo; but they do feel and act on the need to help the less well off by some of the world's highest tax rates. Why again the UN for the 12 straight year found Norway the best place to live. Or as CNN put it: "When it comes to health and prosperity, there's no topping Norway." (From the quote of post 8.)

Bernie Sanders would like to convert the US into a "Social Democracy" but doesn't have much chance of getting to be POTUS as American were not educated to want that - Americans want everyone to work for their own benefit, not the common good. (And they do. The top 1% collect half the nation's income!)

My third point in post 8 was:
"Thirdly, thus educating the class is a mutual group project and responsibility - all learn at an earlier age to help each other - take responsibility for the welfare of others. Later in life, they still think it completely proper, correct and DESIRABLE to pay ~50% of their income in taxes so ALL have good education and health opportunities."

 

Actually, what I said was : "The trick is to balance emotional and intellectual needs of students and the social structure of the community." by which I meant that the challenge of designing an education system of any kind, anywhere, is figuring out how to balance a child's intellectual and emotional needs, and also to fit these to the existing structure of each community. I then conceded (with minor reservations) that you probably have achieved such a balance in the Norwegian system.
No, I do not think all children's needs are the same (though there are core needs common to all) nor that all schools should teach the same subjects in the same way or in the same order (though there needs to be a core curriculum and overall standard.)
I very much doubt you could build a 'three musketeers' community in the USA: there is too much ethnic and cultural diversity and economic disparity. Many people don't, and can't, live their whole lives in the place where they grew up, with the same people who all share the same background and values.
American schools need to concentrate more on tolerance, inclusion, civic obligation, civil rights, and they need to help children from impoverished backgrounds (who didn't have the benefit of standardized quality day-care from birth) catch up academically to the more privileged. These challenges are specific to each nation. Canada has many of the same challenges as the USA, and I think has dealt with them better - or at least more evenly, from province to province. Some of the US states have done very well, while others continue to struggle.

I don't think so. While many Americans do behave that way, it wasn't the public education system which made them think that way. Certainly, the political system contributes, and so does mass entertainment, but the mighty driver of selfishness is Capitalism as an all-pervasive national ideology.

 

I agree, but it is a chicken & egg problem. If Americans had for 100s of years gone to sea in small viking boats, and had earlier eduction like that of Norway, where all learn that they are responsible for the welfair of other Norwegians, then the US would not have such "cultural diversity and economic disparity."

Ethnic diversity can exist in a homogenious cultural and economic structure with little disparity. Your genes do not determin how you think and interact with you neighbors - you education and culture does that.

 

If ... But they didn't. Americans came from all over the globe, in lots of little and big ships, for nearly 500 years. A very few of them had been Vikings; a great many of them had been slaves, peasants, servants, soldiers, refugees... all kinds of people from all kinds of places, who come for all kinds of reasons. They have no roots or history in common, except the cobbling together of this new nation. That's still going on.

How? Homogeneous means the exact opposite of diverse.
The culture, if it coalesces and develops along a single track, may lead to a coherent American identity in another three or four centuries. (I don't expect that to happen.)

Bingo! All these Americans have different cultures, different languages, heritages, belief systems, habits, social structures, relationships, emotional expressions, priorities, mores and manners. The function of the American public school system is to harmonize the differences, reduce the points of conflict, reconcile children to one another and a world-view which is not like the one they have absorbed in their homes. While also teaching children to read and count, to find their way in a bewildering society, make a living and be good citizens.
It's a very difficult things to do well - especially when education is at the mercy of state governments, some of which are hostile to knowledge, hostile to teachers, hostile to blocs of their own citizens.
It is impossible for the US to do what Norway, Holland or even Poland does in education. It has to find its own way.

 

If anyone has read Fahrenheit 451 by Ray Bradbury, it is almost overwhelming how what he wrote about the future is happening.
The Mein Kampf indulges in great hatred and blame, however should that book be banned due to the enormous hate found inside it?
If we did, we would never understand the hatred felt by those who feel like that, and so we could never resolve issues with them.
I believe with every once of my carbon in the freedom of speech, to hear such ignorant and idiotic words from those who go to one of the best collages in the United States sickens me
“Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.” -Mark Twain

Ah, love, let us be true
To one another! for the world, which seems
To lie before us like a land of dreams,
So various, so beautiful, so new,
Hath really neither joy, nor love, nor light,
Nor certitude, nor peace, nor help for pain;
And we are here as on a darkling plain
Swept with confused alarms of struggle and flight,
Where ignorant armies clash by night.

 

The world is mostly run by evil people who want to use everyone else to amass wealth and power to themselves.
The rest of us continually fight them as best we can, and the best tool we have for fighting is good government.

 

I agree with all your post. The first step for the US finding its own way to a better socializing education (community building & factor of 10 reduction in number of jailed youth*) is making sure all get a good educational opportunity. Schools in poor neighborhoods are very inferior, to those in wealthy neighborhoods. We need national, not local, funding of our schools.

But that is just the first step and years will pass before there is much noticeable improvement as parental attitudes have great influnece on student's desire to learn.

Ben Carlson was the speaker at APL's Black Pride day about 30 years ago. He told how his mother, who was illiterate, hid the fact from him and that she required him to bring home a book each week from the school library and read it to her, while she worked (ironing or fixing food, etc.) Ben chose books with little text and many pictures. One was a book about rocks.

Ben did not pay much attention to the teacher in early elementary school - looked out the window a lot instead. In fact was called by other students: "The class dumbie." One day the teacher held up a rock and asked if anyone knew what it was. No one did, so very timidly Ben held up his hand. One of the other students said: "This ought to be good - Let hear what the dumbie has to say." Ben said “obsidian.” The teacher in startled surprise said: "Why that is right, Ben!" and Ben ceased to think of himself as dumb. He began to pay attention in class and rapidly advanced well beyond his grade level.

Ben walked home after school along the railroad track. A few days after naming the rock he saw a piece of obsidian and put in in his pocket. To jump ahead many years, Ben became the youngest neurosurgeon at Johns Hopkins Hospital, specializing in pediatric brain surgery. He successfully separated some Siamese twins joined at the head with not enough skulk for both - no other doctor would attempt the job.

If you went to his JHU Hospital Office, prominently displayed on his desk there was that piece of obsidian, Ben had picked up from the railroad track many years earlier. I was very active (the operational leader) in Baltimore's finally successful drive to open restaurants to all and thus specially impressed by Ben's story. APL records all the weekly colloquiums and I bought a copy of Ben's Black Pride day talk. I still have it, but no way to play it now.

* The annual cost of each in jail is more than any Ivy League college tuition!

PS Ben is quite religious - firmly opposted to abortions, etc. I am almost sure, he believes that it was not by chance that the teacher held up a piece of obsidium a couple of days after he read the "rock book" to his mother. None can say he is wrong.

 

I think he's wrong, but I wouldn't say it to him. Religion is one of the many factors we have to make allowance for.
Three ways the US could improve its dreadful literacy rate:
Strike down all the drug laws. (Stop arresting people at 13 for possession and turning them into life-long criminals.)
Take half its military budget and put the resources toward welfare programs: local clinics, family planning, better housing and nutrition, counselling, women's shelters, adult education, etc.
Free daycare and early childhood education. (That's a huge advantage Norwegian children have, before even going into school.)

 

To Jeeves:
You seem to know a lot about Norway - by searching? I don't search much - not very good at it. My knowledge about Norway is 25+ years old but direct experience. A dozen of so brief visits there. My kids and wife spent most of summers there. Kids became fluent in Norwegian, which is more useful than one would guess if in any large port city and in trouble. They all have a branch of the Norwegian Seaman's Church.

A couple dozen Norwegian residents of Baltimore were there in church most Sundays. I don't remember why, but for a few months there was no one who could play the organ – my 12 year old daughter with a few years of piano lessons, tortured it but they all sang along and thanked her after the services, some times with some home-made cookies.

We were friends with the permanent resident care taker of the Seaman's church in Baltimore. His main job, AFAIK, was to keep it running and recover Norwegian sailors from jail, just before their ship was going to leave Baltimore. The Baltimore police /courts had a good working arrangement with him.

Usually a couple of sailors, with their pay in their pockets, would try to spend most of it in the few days the ship would be in the harbor and end up drunk and in jail. Baltimore would release them into his custody the day the ship was scheduled to leave and he would put them on the ship - saved Baltimore some money.