Discussion in 'Site Feedback' started by EmptyForceOfChi, Mar 2, 2011.
I might add the word Sadat, if I may.
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Hmm you know what would be a demonstration of second class status? If Americans were treated by Arabs the way Arabs are treated by Americans. Does "collateral damages" signify as a status?
Enters into the concept of the burden of proof. Theories without it will probably get slammed a lot. I feel for you, having a few heretical impulses myself. But if we didn't, there'd be all kinds of quackery on here.
Could you please explain what this has to do with the OP? Or drive back in that direction?
You want me to explain the xeniphobia where the Arabic equivalent of a word makes it a pejorative to you? Sorry, thats not possible. I have never understood the concept of racism against a language, not until I read western explanations of Arabic words.
Great! Back on track. ("Xenophobia", but never mind.) It's actually usage that makes it a pejorative, rather than everyone else pointing it out. It's kind of like a Klansman complaining because people object to his hood. I imagine there are better parallels.
Er...how does my taking offense at a pejorative that Muslims are also trying to discourage make it racism? And are you arguing that it's an anti-Arab thing or an anti-Islamic thing? Clearly, it would be the latter since it's a religious issue (none of my Arab friends have ever called me a kuffar, although Chi did a little while ago). So is 'Muslim' a race now?
So, like if Saudi Arabia were to start allowing Americans to immigrate there, live as equals, practice whichever religion they like, and so on?
I guess you meant to refer to Arabs bombing our cities and causing civilian deaths - didn't they already do that? And didn't that have something to do with motivating all of these actions that you deplore?
Or engage in widespread bigoted ideation and stereotyping? Again, already been going on for some time.
Usage by whom? White racists mostly. Other people are not allowed to be offended by any words, images or depictions. And once white racists make any word a pejorative, it is obligatory on the rest of the world to oblige them by erasing it from their languages
Muslims are also trying to get people to apologise for the Mohammed cartoons but thats covered by freedom of [non-Muslim] expression. You're confusing graciousness with obligation.
Oh, them racists
Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Hard to believe, unfortunately. Did you have a word count? Sorry: what proof did you have that these mythical white racists were responsible? I can find all kinds of English-language Islamic sites where it's used as an insult. I guess they're white racists too. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Well for starters, never you mind the spirit in which the cartoons came about: a ban on drawing Mohammed at all, both within and without the Islamic world. Or how the riots got started in the ME, which was mostly deliberate incitement by Islamist racists. The other tiny difference is that Mohammed is long dead, whereas non-Muslims are (so far) mostly not dead. But let me ask: did Mohammed invent the pejorative kuffaar because he knew the cartoons were coming out 1400 years later? If so, he had more insight than I thought.
I'm just teasing, of course: I'm sure Islamists started using the word kuffaar as a pejorative because they knew the cartoons were coming out 20-30 years later. That makes much more sense.
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Did you somehow miss the official reason why the word is a pejorative? On the other hand, its kind of ironic that by dismissing it as a racist term, the board has effectively made all K*****s equivalent to C**Ts.
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Oh, goodness me!
Ooh goody. Let's see if I can follow your turns and leaps here.
And you answer:
Ah! So I go to the OP and find that it's Chi bitching about me, and James to some extent. Since you mention the "board", I conclude you mean the board of moderators; ergo, this site! So, since you attribute its being labeled a pejorative to "white racists", I must presume you mean me and James!
See? I did understand what you meant!
Reported. This time it stays on.
Do learn to read Geoff. It will save so much time explaining things in your language to you.
Read carefully now:
Did you somehow miss the official reason why the word is a pejorative?
See? No sciforums, no Chi, no bans.
Official reason why the word is a pejorative
Let us go to the linguistics moderator for enlightenment:
Ah - you're right for once! Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Well, kind of.
I mean, that's actually a different meaning and usage. I'd go so far as to say it's essentially a different word. And the other version of the word - you know, the one we're actually discussing - goes back much further. And there's no idea where a specific "board" enters into Fraggle's comment, and you don't actually mention one. So...actually no. But other than all those elementary mistakes in my language, your response was perfect.
So I guess I take my compliments back. :bawl:
And I was going to write it in my diary and everything!: but the "Sam was right" column must stay empty for now.
One day, I am sure it will be full of something.
My word: I had no idea you were unintelligible in Italian also! Miei complimenti!
You'd have to either be an idiot or a racist to think the word Nigger means non-White. As you're not an idiot, I have to assume racism. Have you ever heard a White Supremest defend "the White race" as "White Rights"? They use the exact same arguments.
Which is why I wondered: How do you explain to the Suicide Bomber they have no faith in God? Well, I promise you, while they remain a Suicide Bomber, you can't.
Muslims have no Faith in God - and THAT'S coming from someone Atheist.
Well I usually judge the effectiveness of any action by its results, so what happens when you remove a specific word like kufr [rejection of monotheism] and substitute it with a word which means something completely different? Non-Muslims? Disbelievers? Atheists? Well you change the perception of how the word is understood and used not only by those who don't speak the language but also by those who do. So already kufr has changed from rejecting monotheism to rejecting Islamic beliefs. Now it effectively puts all non-Muslims in the same basket. So what was perceived as applying only to those who reject monotheism now embraces everyone who is not Muslim. It also simultaneously makes the difference between kafir and kaffir null and void since it makes being a non-Muslim a slur equivalent to racism.
I leave you to consider how that pans out religiously and linguistically...
And to further demonstrate how actively the word pops up in any debate on Islam or Muslims, I recommend you run a search for the words kuffar in your own posts.
Or a linguist
But I agree with you. Black is not non-white anymore than kafir is non-Muslim
This is true. If one's perception of monotheism is equivalent to Islamic beliefs - and there is reason to think that such a position is not uncommon, and there are reasons of practice and scripture to think that this is so - it might be a shorter leap to make.
I wouldn't go so far as to consider it equivalent to racism; there's more borderland in its interpretation, whereas "k-word" applied to Africans is more like an absolute: "bugs". "Inhuman". The modern - and possibly ancient - versions of the same word seem more like an accusation of intransigence, or stupidity.
You said Suicide Bombers have no faith in God.
I get it.
So SAM, How are you going to explain to the Suicide Bomber they have no faith in God?
It's not possible. Because they have their faith in God. As long as they remain a Suicide Bomber, killing women and children is good, it's part of Gods plan and will always and forever make sense to them.
Just like the Suicide Bombers, Muslims have no Faith in God. As long as they remain a Muslim, labeling people Kaffir is good, it's part of Gods plan and will always and forever make sense to them.
Separate names with a comma.