jesus christ is god

- SnakeLord -

This is the story i was referring to earlier:

The Rich Man and Lazarus

19"There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21and longing to eat what fell from the rich man's table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.
22"The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23In hell,[1] where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'
25"But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.'
27"He answered, 'Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house, 28for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'
29"Abraham replied, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.'
30" 'No, father Abraham,' he said, 'but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.'
31"He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.' "


Footnotes


16:23 Greek Hades


-------------------------
Jezus Christus Leeft

 

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Fireseeds.....

You really need to get over yourself. I understand that you are a Christian and one of your main objectives is saving souls but realize that there are many many perspectives on life. Everything regarding God, religion, heaven, hell etc. is completely subjective. Perception determines ones truth therefore your faith is just as valid or invalid as anyone elses. That is the tricky thing about Faith. You really can't argue it.

When you convince yourself to believe in a certain Faith then it becomes real. The Eye of the Beholder so to speak. You can quote all the Bible verses you want but unless the reader shares your same views, they will not hold any water.

Personally, I do not believe in organized religion. I also don't believe in the concept of Original Sin therefore I do not believe in Jesus. There is no need for a Saviour in my mind. And you can not convince me otherwise. If you try to use Hell as a reason, I will just laugh and shout Propaganda. You get me

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JDawg,

Very interesting concept. Been reading alot of York's material? IMO the Seed theory makes more sense then most theology. Also, many of these stories were described on Ancient Mesopotamian/Sumerian Tablets from which many Biblical Stories derived from.

Peace

 

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Your story reminds me of this guy.

 

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Unfortunately that little paragraph didn't really get to the point. A) Are people who kill because they truly believe god told them to, sinning? As i've already mentioned, god said they would be forgiven because they did not know they were sinning. B) List me the sins. If i don't know what is a sin i am blameless, so lay it on me.

[/quote]Do you really "agape" love your neighbor?[/quote]

To me the deletion of every rule made by god to the more compact: 'love thy neighbour' is nothing short of a joke. However it is the belief shared by many christians. Much that it is a noble sentiment i have seen these very same people doing anything other than show love. What makes the whole rule petty is the instant: "ah but we have jesus, so it's cool" nonsense. That demeans the very meaning of sin in the first place. It becomes more about scapegoats, instead of self-improvement. We can all do that, and as the christians say time and time again, is very simple to do- just accept but it promotes lack of value. I sinned, i repented, im forgiven now i can go sin again...

Well that is in contradiction to: hebrews 5:7 'During the days of jesus life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death.

It would seem he did want to be saved from death, and if later on he became 'obedient' to it, it would have been by gods doing, not his own.

You also said this:

Well read the text....

Every high priest is selected from among men and is appointed to represent them in matters relating to god, to offer gifts and sacrifices for his own sins..... So christ did not take upon himself the glory of becoming a high priest.

That paragraph would suggest A) jesus was a man and B) and was there to represent god and offer sacrifices for his own sins and his people. It says, later on, that god eventually made him perfect after he had learned obedience. (Hebrews 5:8/9)

You sure about that? From what it says, he was talking about Every high priest, of which jesus was one.

Earlier you said: he cannot do Good he can only do Evil, if he heals someone it is only temporary, a disguise.

Nowhere in those two passages does it say anything about satan only being able to heal temporarily or that he can't do good.

How do you know? He is the 'father of lies'. He'd lie to you and tell you he wasn't evil- doesn't mean he isn't.

Ah but with satan being the father of lies it could all be a ruse. Remember, according to religion, satan wants souls for eternity not for a weekend stay in humanville. If they work in cahoots it would be a worthy sacrifice to make.

god made the sick go and heal themselves, (those were the rules he set down). They were classed as 'unclean' and sent off until such time when they were clean again. This includes lepers. The blind, mute and dumb, couldnt walk etc he classed as defected and wouldn't be seen near them. How different then and how much more respect would you give someone who did do that instead of kicking you out of town?

Yeah, above the angels but below god....

If god is jesus's god then he's a higher god than jesus is.

well jesus has been found worthy of...

If jesus was in fact god he would already know he's worthy and this sentence would be pointless.

Yes but it completely misses the point. He's going to be a high priest of god forever, which means he's not god, he's a high priest of god- exactly like melchizedek. In fact several times god says to jesus: "You are a priest forever in the order of melchizedek." Sounds very much like there's more than one of these forever living high priests. Is melchizedek god? Do you bow and worship melchizedek?

"The lord has sworn and will not change his mind: 'You are a priest forever'" Because of this oath, jesus has become the guarantee of a better covenant. Now there have been many of those priests, since death prevented them from continuing in office; but because jesus lives for ever, he has a permanent priesthood.

Hebrews also questions why jesus was, as god said, to be a priest in the order of melchizedek instead of aaron. The reason was because he, like melchizedek had the power of indestructible life instead of via ancestry.

Again i beg the question of how he sacrificed anything if he was indeed indestructible. It's like saying you'll blow up your house, but use silly-putty instead of nitro-glycerine. It's completely worthless.

No, he didn't 'overcome'- he was indestructible. Don't tell me.... he became indestructible after he died on the cross? So... what makes you think he's god or ever has been? Wouldn't the excercise of trying to kill god, no matter what form he took, always be pure futility?

I concur. He became a priest- not a god.

 

lightbeing

hi, like ya handle.
i cannot be convinced of anything, unless proved. who can u rely on, but yourself? god is there for u. he has this ladder, saying, climb out of the pit. all one has to do is reach out and accept, and the kingdom of heaven stretches before them. most are limited by lack of depth. is that a crime? of course not. can a flower become a tree? can a nut become a plum. we are what we are, and we may all have a place in heaven of our own accord, or abilities.
if u have been "seeded" the seed will possibly grow. it is up to u to climatize and water it. this is what i call independent thought - the whole basis of evolution. is serving god that bad? because man is not god, then he cannot serve himself: tho man does this naturally, this is not the basis for eternal life. man is mortal and therefore can only live a mortal life. under christ, god offers us immortality.
cheers

 

snake

ah, snake, i see ya up to ya usual - agreeing with yaself.
concur:agree to have the same opinion or reach agreement. very funny. u didn't really believe u were gonna get away with that one, did u?
nice try, tho.

 

jdawg

nicely contructed story. thanks for that. i, for one, really enjoyed it. i cannot imagine the summerians perceiving things the way we do. for a start, their languge was different, plus their universal knowledge, for knowledge is required to contruct proper logic. the basis to these stories tho, is founded in the old legends, which are outside the present bible history.
cheers

 

snake

hi,
just a few points of clarification. the crux of the "11th commandment" is, "to love god with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength. i think the rest will naturally follow, as COMPASSION COMES FROM STRENGTH.
because satan is created, he cannot possibly be anything like god. so, everything god is, satan isn't. if a demon were to leave a house, then i'm sure that house would be much happier and healthier. i don't think lord jesus ate pork, and he once sent some demons into a herd of pigs, and they ran off and drowned themselves. watery grave?
it's a true fact that joy is produced by god: there is no other production like it. sands of joy come and go but the rock of joy gushes forth forever.
most adults in time come to an understanding about the desolation of the world. just look at the elderly, and the dying. that is satan's work and not of god. the flesh may decay but the lord's spirit lives forever.
"blagged", maybe, maybe not?
man will always strive with his maker, until redeemed.
i feel free to attend any church, any denomination; i have no qualms. i am more interested in the people, and their well-being. the church of jesus christ is more in the spirit than a building. the bible also teaches that the weeds and the grain grow together. all this "old" wisdom still demolishes the so-called present day "superior" knowledge.
actually, hebrews is perfection, and not contradictory at all.
puting it this way, jesus is gods lamb, for service and not reward. the reward comes with the territory.
so god "titles" jesus. perhaps something like the star of david, congressional medal of honor, victoria cross, maybe? man awards, shows god does to. to have a relationship with god, we must also come to know him and understand him. when we read the bible we can safely say we are being instructed and conformed by god himself to his own image.
cheers for now.

 

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pagan evolution

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hey, we worship the sun on sundays, yeah, man, why not switch it to the lords day? arn't these pagans just spoilt?
when i was a child i thought as a child, and when i became a man i thought as a man.

hey def', that pic' represents a fairly true depiction. embarrassing, eh? the three stages - hahahah. at least he's there for us.

 

What are you waffling about?? Get off the drugs then make posts to me. I used the word 'concur' once at the end of my last post to a statement made by aard. How is that agreeing with myself? I concurred with his statement: 'jesus became a priest'. If you're going to be silly don't waste my time. I left a large post and all you had to say was that? Nothing new there then.

Well you didn't even understand my english, as seen above, so what makes you even think you can understand 2,000 year old multi-translated texts any better?

This is with reference to what?

Lol, if you say so.

Oh man you're funny.

Cool!! So, if in future i ever know someone who gets possessed by demons i don't need to call the priests to come round and chant by the bedside- i just feed the demon a ham sandwich.

Well he wouldn't have to be like god. He comes to fool men, which god allows. god must have given him some rights.

Now deception is an easy thing to pull off. Imagine these blind people that jesus gave sight- how pleased they would be that they could see again.... he would have you believe they were possessed by demons, which he cast out. He also healed mute people etc... But hang on...

Exodus 4:11 The lord said to him, "who gave man his mouth? who makes him deaf or mute? who gives him sight or makes him blind? Is it not i, the lord?"

Well well well... it is the lord who makes men deaf, dumb, mute, blind etc so why does anyone claim its demons? Yet another example of jesus being nothing god is but good enough to fool the humans.

 

snake

hang on a minute. "i concur. he became a priest- not a god." u are concurring with yourself. aardappelvreter will take a fit when he sees that, as far as i'm concerned.
get back to ya later

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sheesh!

as for satan, he is not in this picture, so's we can continue with the truth, whole truth, nothing but the truth...(ahh...er...where have i heard that before...?
catch up later. off to the matrix reloaded. watch out!

 

Depends how you feel like interpreting it. I concurred with the statement he became a priest which shows he's not a god. Obviously our english differs and mistakes undoubtedly made- heh, just like the bible.

 

Jesus is not god, nor is he the christ, he was merely another prophet.

 

Myths

The Fall of Humankind

A common motif of creation myths is that fall from grace of the first humans. Often, as in the case of the Hebrew creation, the first humans do something forbidden by the creator. Sometimes they are unsuitable in the form in which they have been created, as in the Quiche Mayan creation myth, or sometimes they have been generally corrupted. Often the moral fall is followed by a complete fall or cosmic cleansing, usually in the form of a flood.

Imperfect Creation

Sometimes the creator is dissatisfied with his work and decides to leave or destroy it and begin over again. Sometimes an element of creation fails. The clay, for instance, might be bad clay, reflecting the problems that potters and other craftspeople often have with their materials. In the Quiche Mayan creation, for example, the clay is bad, and the creator has to start over. Sometimes the creator realizes after the fact that his creation---especially the human aspect of it---is wrong, and he sends a cleansing flood.

The Flood and Flood Hero

In many creation myths the creator becomes disgusted with the behavior of human beings and cleanses his creation with a great deluge. Often, however, he chooses one human to preserve life for re-creation after the flood. The flood hero usually takes his wife and several sets of animals with him and rides out the flood in a boat. He represents the positive seed of the original creation, which we hope lies within us all. Whether he is called Ziusudra (Sumerian) Utnapishtim (Babylonian), Noah (Hebrew), Manu (Indian), or Deucalion (Greek), he is the representative of the craving for life that makes it possible for us to face the worst adversities.

The Flood occurs, then, as a secondary stage of many creation myths. It is one of mankind's earliest "memories." We cannot "remember the events of the creation itself, because we were not there, but we were there for the Flood. The persistence of this archetype, expressed so universally in deluge myths, suggests an important aspect of humanity's vision of both its own imperfection and the possibility of redemption in a new beginning. A microcosmic version of the Flood is to be found in purification ceremonies such as the Christian baptism, in which the initiate "dies" to the old way in the waters of the font and is reborn in Christ. The Flood is a given culture's rebirth from chaotic maternal waters.

Source: A Dictionary of Creation Myths

 

see how easy it is to please revbill2001.
go thy way,
enjoy the sunset,
remember the lord in the morning.

 

Notice the similarity between any idiot attempt at writing and the bible...Striking.....To consider that firingseeds have not even meditated before writing, and his hands might still not be washed from doing his business this morning. Go wash your hands firingseeds and meditate a bit, and you can write your own version of the bible much better than the current one

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thanks, flores

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cool

 

snake

now i can see where you are coming from. u have built a good case for yourself, but only in your own mind. that's the whole point to your questions and to our answers. doubt raises questions and in turn leads (possibly) to answers.
i have no problem proclaiming jesus is lord, whereby u call jesus a fraud. and yet, it's u who asks every question. and so u must realistically ask yourself, what is reasonable assessment? another question would be: who be the teacher? simple enough equations, don't u think?
i think we have a lot more window space than u, and at least we have opened the curtains for ya. now it's up to u to take a look thru (preferably from the inside out, and not where u presently are at, from the outside in).
but ignorance has it's own rewards.
cheers.

 

Firingseeds

Do take my advice and get over yourself. Why do Christians always use analogies, metaphores etc to explain their angle? Everytime I see one it gets more and more rediculous. Like those silly little pamphlets you leave in bathroom Stalls. I remember I read one about poker regarding odds and chances and somehow, close to the end, it related everything all back to Jesus and Gambling with your life, to burn or not to burn. You Silly Billies. I have to say they are pretty entertaining, and I get a good chuckle.