jesus christ is god

That's just a slightly bit self-righteous dont you think? What's to say your faith isn't just in your mind and bears no basis on reality whatsoever? I've heard often people claim absolute proof because they feel joy and love. I too feel joy and love- it requires no god, just inner peace. They then proceed to tell me the bible says so. I have aimed my efforts at the bible, (with the basis that what is written within is factual)

You have absolutely no basis with which to say this. The point is about analysis which means i must ask questions. That's not to say i cannot interpret or analyse what i read, but it would hardly be fair unless i got every opinion on the subject. That is our fundamental difference: You have your truth and are closed to any other opinion or alternative because of it. I do not claim to have the absolute truth, that is highly presumptuous for anyone, even those who 'feel' jesus. We are at such a fragile and mentally tender state of progression that we have not the slightest clue how our brains behave. There is no doubt we can have beliefs that are so deep rooted our brains live it out every day of the week for us. There is nothing to suggest reality to much of what we believe. Belief, mythology, folklore, old wives tales all bear extreme relevance in our lives in the modern day. If we think we can label one of them as true and the rest false we would be fooling ourselves beyond compare. We then teach others what we think we know until such a time where it becomes common fact. As an example off the top of my head let's talk about ostriches.

Did you know ostriches do NOT stick their heads in sand? It is a commonly held 'fact' among modern day humanity not because it has any bearing on truth but because that's what people have said for hundreds or thousands of years.

Look at werewolves... A genetic disorder turned into a tale of half wolf/half man creatures that change when there's a full moon. The disorder turned people mad which is why the moon is involved- it's the origin of 'lunacy'- which stemmed from staring at the moon for too long a period- which would turn a man mad.

A story, whether originally based on fact or not, will change to such a tremendous degree over a period of time. We can see by looking at original sumerian texts where a large majority of the bible comes from- and yet nobody questions how much those texts would have changed over thousands of years- giving people their current day belief/s. Even to this day nobody can agree- and in a few thousand years time, depending on who told you which version, the religion you now subscribe to could have changed to such an extreme it would be unrecognisable by todays standards. Every day of the week a new cult springs out of the mud claiming it has knowledge of the absolute truth. Some make it to religion status, some don't.

Look at the stories of dracula if you want to see how stories change over time. The guys name is now one of the most well known mythological creatures of all time yet it was all down to a psychopath who staked women. Other parts were added, mainly for effect and story telling, and voila! you have count dracula, blood sucker extraordinaire.

I'd question the validity of any of these in exactly the same manner. Your belief has no right to claim precedence over any of the other billions of beliefs throughout the world. As such i will state god, the loch ness monster, unicorns, atlantis etc etc all have the possibility to exist. I will not sit here and say they do exist and i wont sit here and say they don't. To do either is faulty and completely presumptuous.

No, i don't. The job of someone interested in truth is to hear all sides, not just his own. If i don't ask questions how can i claim to be looking for the truth? What you can see, if you look, is that i openly welcome all other opinions, ideas, hypothesis, and beliefs. You have nothing to learn off anyone- or be interested in what anyone else has to say, so you might not understand what i'm saying, but i am. I like to hear what others have to say- otherwise i might aswell just start preaching my version like some people here seem to like doing.

"Jesus IS the devil! Pray to god now or jesus will take you to hell and cook your flesh for eternity"

Do you see now just how worthless that attitude is? Do you see now why i question people and resent plain pathetic preaching? I have given you an absolute in my quote, and short of you just calling me a liar and stupid it's not debateable. That gives nothing.

Maybe so. I look in every single window, whereas you just expect everyone to look into yours while you pay no attention to anyone elses. That's great if you'd like to live life as a self-righteous turnip but is what some people regard as a 'closed mind'. The holier than thou attitude is also a tad suspect. You probably wont understand this paragraph- better just to skip it.

How fast a person can be to claim ignorance of others. If that's what makes you happy label me any way you wish but just bear in mind that difference of belief isn't sign of ignorance. Make sure you understand what it is before you throw it around like pennies. Remember also freedom of choice. Some of us choose to find answers instead of just accepting them for eternal life. If we end up burning for it, such is life.. that still gives you no right to claim everyone else as ignorant and gives you no right to expect everyone to accept your version of the truth.

[Personal thought] I always found it's better to understand oneself before trying to understand everyone else.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

In my opinion its a little distrubing. The uneasyness that comes with the picture is from the "fairly true depiction" I think it shows the ability of humans to engage in self deception. IMO

The only ones here for me are my friends, family and myself. Im fine with that.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

snake

do u really know much about yourself? everything thats provided for your info, u give us the exact opposite, almost like a shadow. not very original, or very clever; nor very gracious. some football teams use this shadow concept as a strategy, but its a boring style of play, and totally without freestyle. u almost sound depressing. now this is just plain fact, and it's about time u opened that brain up a bit on ya own accord, and started using it, if u are that serious for the truth? i believe truth of god can be reasoned (and i may be wrong), and it doesn't bother me if someone can't see that point. like we agree, the answers to your questions appears to be the basis of your life, not mine. u see, i don't carry doubt at all. if i don't know something, guess what? then i don't know something. in time, i will or i won't. different style to u. perhaps that's why i learn the important things and u don't. seriously, this information, u will digest with relish, and then come back with the usual negative. it's funny, but not original.
anyway, to my point! even kids can sort thru fact and fiction. u can make it look as complicated as u like, but the simple truth of it is, there is only fact and fiction. and what ya don't know is simply elaboration.

nor is god's joy the eagle's rock concert joy. u claim u don't know jesus and then claim u can equate god's joy with your own. that's just bullshit, and the usual shadow approach. i have seen the world's joy, and it is worthless. if u havn't experienced, or understood, god's joy, then how can u claim it for yourself? if u had, then u would have just accepted it - and respected it, (for it is a free gift).
anyway, a bit of food for thought. entering the kingdom of jesus christ is rest, eventually; otherwise the search goes on for u, not me. accept it! (i'm actually stating jesus is god from a comfort zone, and funny u havn't noticed).
cheers.
...and in the meantime i'm developing my writing style. to u, i would say, take it or leave it. the final arbitrator is god himself, jeus christ. does it really matter if u don't know that?
and we havn't even got to the point of u finding out for yourself by committing your life to jesus, which would be your own proof for your own self.
man - like a chuff of wind, here today, gone tomorrow.
have fun

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

defsceptic

hi def'.
yeah, i'm cool with that. isaiah talks about the devastation of the fields etc. with a family behind u, what worries? the simple truth of the gospel is, that if u accept jesus christ as your lord and saviour, and believe god raised him from the dead, then u will be saved.
get real over the picture: we grew up on nursery rhymes. we ARE a bit brighter than what u seem to be giving us credit for, (tho i can sympathize with catholics).
cheers
...and look on the bright side, eh?

 

"The meme for blind faith secures its own perpetuation by the
simple unconscious expedient of discouraging rational inquiry."
-Richard Dawkins

 

poet

hi, poet. nice
yep. rational enquiry is a fair comment. some enquiry is just plain unrational. like: how about trying, "think for one's self." buttering bread ain't that hard, but trying to make it so complicated is, in my opinion, simply stupid.
for the common good? i also can't go against the wishes' of the bible, so's the balance is in there, also, somewhere. that very confession thereby becomes the target for escape, soforth. that's the reality of the truth, not confusion and complication. words of truth are living words: words of confusion are worthless. try explaining that to a deaf ear. living words uplift the soul - dead words are truly dead works.
tell me i'm wrong.

 

Sorry, Im trying to.

Ok, I can dig that. Just like any other group, there are some bad apples, but always some good ones.

Thanks Evilpoet, good quote by a good man.

 

ya know, once you've built ya fences, done the lawns and gardens, built the house etc., one may then decide what one wants to allow entry to in the future. this is similiar to the workings of the mind, if u know this simple philosophy. i can allow entry by reading or hearing, but it does not enter the forbidden zone, until it is checked and analysed etc., for viruses, negativity, unproductive rubbish etc. (why waste valuable working storage etc). i don't have to do any work in this area, my own deductive reasonings come into affect automatically. this is simply me. in the worlds knowledge, i knew this not, and would never have. this is self produced fact. nor can self ever reason correctly - this is also fact. when i started playing with a computer (which was not that long ago) i realized some self-functions that were already in place.
it's the realization of truth that leads to knowledge of and from god. we most all know the world's rubbish: jesus overcame the world, so can we.

a working relationship with god is a good thing. a journey into the unknown, but a journey of eternity. here is a simple view of god: he sets the path of life before me, and i look after the day to day running of it. most folk are still stuck (or bogged) back in the sin part of it. have they actually applied themselves, or is their standard of hard work just my laziness?
cheers

 

poet

hi, poet,
may u store this in the library, please?
"god is the producer of this show"
- firingseeds

 

I've noticed that Firingseeds seems to have things figured out, or at least he thinks so. I appreciate his love for God, his faith and happiness in that faith, but I really have to pick his brain, because as nice as it must be to have that infallable faith, it smells kind of funny to me.

Let me ask you, seeds, on what you base your faith on? Is it the Bible? You say that you cannot go against the wishes of the Bible, and Bible this and Bible that...but if the God you worship was real, then why do you need the Bible? Do you see where I'm going with this? Of course you didn't formulate your opinion of God before you read the book, did you? How could you have? But if God were real, how could he let his presence be unknown? If it were not for someone telling you all about it, or you reading it yourself, then how would you know of the supposed existance of this supposed god? If God were real, then why isn't knowledge of him known from birth?

If all of humanity is his "Intelligent Design" and our sole purpose on this plane is to worship "Him," then why did he not design us to know of him right from the get-go?


And what of the teachings in the Bible? To paraphrase, "All slaves shall obey their Earthly masters." Today, we know slavery to be wrong and inhumane, and we know that no human should be treated that way, but why does God not know that? After all, God created us, did he not? If he did, then why does his teaching go against what we have come to know to be true? We're his intelligent design, and he must have known we would figure that out, right?

Or another story, of which the exact details I can't remember now, but the overall jist of the story goes like this: A man, who loves God and worships him, led a happy life with his wife and children. God, in a conversation with someone...maybe an angel(?) is questioned about the man's dedication to God. The man, whom we'll call Joe for the story's sake, prays to God every day, thanking him for the bountiful life he has been given.

Back in Heaven, God says "Joe loves and worships me unconditionally. I will prove it to you."

And so God makes Joe's crops die and his wife and children fall ill and die. Joe's life is ruined, and the once bountiful life is now one of a lonely, hungry man. Yet Joe still prays to God, thanking him for everything the Lord has given him.

And God, still in Heaven, says to the one who posed the question, "See? I told you Joe loves and worships me without condition!"

...and the story ends there. God doesn't return the crops to Joe. He doesn't bring Joe's wife or children back from the dead. He doesn't try to comfort Joe. He just wanted to prove that he has supreme and ultimate power over Joe to someone, and he did. What kind of message is that supposed to send?

That all said, let me now answer some questions for you...

You say that we, the nonbeliever, are close-minded. We look through "Less window space" than you (Believers) do. You say that we are ignorant for not taking the word of God as the truth. You say we claim to have all the answers, yet we ask all the questions. Well, let me tell you about myself before you continue to cast stones as you have so many times before on these boards.

I ask questions. I ask them becuase my thirst for knowledge cannot be suppressed. At my new supervision job at UPS, I ask my supervisor questions every time I get the chance, and I do it so I will have a better understanding of the job and be able to make concious, intelligent decisions based on the information given.

Of course, I cannot answer all questions. I cannot tell my workers what time we will get out of work on any given night, for the simple fact that the information does not provide that answer no matter how many times I ask. On the other hand, I can give an estimate, an educated guess, based on trends and information from days prior to this one. I can use this same technique when it comes to the existance of God. I cannot disprove his existance beyond a shadow of a doubt, because there isn't any evidence that says he does not exist in some fashion. But, becuase there isn't any evidence that he does, and from evidences that contradict what is taught in the Bible (Aerodynamic airplane pendants 2000 years old; Sumerian texts older than the Bible, and bear striking resemblance to OT texts in the Bible with the exception of the gods being replaced by aliens; hieroglyphics in Egypt depicting brain, lung, kidney and brain transplantation surgeries thousands of years before Christ himself; the Ark of the Covenant, which when touched by one man caused him to be "Struck down by God" actually emits thousands of volts of electricity when reproduced today, making the "Struck down by God" theory a bit far-fetched)

Simply put, you say we are ignorant because we question, yet you base all your knowledge on a single book. If I were to do the same thing today with a different book, then I would believe that Ford Prefect really came down and took Arthur from Earth moments after it was destroyed to make room for an interstellar space highway!

Or better yet, using your logic system, then why not believe what I see on film? Maybe Xion does exist, and Neo really is The One! Or that there really is a Terminator! Why not? I'm basing my beliefs in the same way you are, except my beliefs are documented on film!

Don't you see the holes in what you believe in? Isn't it possible that whatever the origional texts said (Read the summerian texts if you want to know) was twisted and turned by smart men who wished to use it as a tool of control over masses of people? The same thing is done today in cults, so why could it not have happened back then?

To ask questions and seek truth isn't ignorance.

To deny those possibilities without merit is.

 

A lot more than you know about me, yet here you are leaving countless posts trying to tell me who and what i am. Wouldn't be so bad if you weren't so blatantly far off the mark.

What would you expect from a debate, everyone to agree with everyone? If i did agree i'd let you know, but i do not agree with everything that's said and as such debate the issue.

Awww poor firingseed. So if i just agree with you im clever, original and gracious but if i don't i get a long reply telling me i'm wrong and stupid. Nevermind, you'll get over your self-righteousness one day.

Football bears absolutely no relevance to debating an issue you disagree with.

You are a pompous little twerp. I don't need to say much more than that, you'll find the rest out when you grow up.

We agree? Since when? The basis of my life is my daughter. Here you are trying to say "this is fact", "that is fact", when you haven't got the slightest clue and just make it up as you go along. Every time i leave a post you have no debate for you just make a long post trying to insult me. It's pathetic, but common among pre-pubescent teens. When i have some free time i do like to analyse and study things. When it comes down to highly questionable issues such as the bible, fairies, or bigfoot it can only be expected that there will be many many differing opinions and i like to hear all of them. Your opinion is that everyone else is wrong and stupid, only you are right. I've now heard that 10 times, there's little need to continue telling me. Either debate the issues i raise or dont, no point in personal attacks.

Lol boy, if only you could hear yourself.

Really? Up until i left my last post didn't you know ostriches buried their heads in sand? If i was to do a survey about ostriches i'm certain the overwhelming majority of children and adults would claim it to be true, when it is actually just fiction.

However this is a completely different issue to simple 'fact' and 'fiction'. What we have is a 'need' among men to hold belief in unexplainable things in order to simply explain the things they cant explain.

When you want your horse to win a race, or want a girl to say yes when you ask her out, or a whole host of other things, a person instantly crosses their fingers. Everyone i've ever known has at some stage crossed their fingers with some unconcious belief that it gives luck. Tell me, how does crossing your fingers make anything better? Is crossing your fingers for luck a fiction? a fact? Yet pretty much every single person in the modern day world will resort to that rather simplistic method to get things their way. From santa to crossing fingers to jesus- it's all about receiving gifts and not one of them has the benefit of being a 'fact'.

You've not seen the Eagles yet claim you can equate the joy i feel at an Eagles concert with your own. As you can see joy is completely personal. You assume everyone needs jesus to experience joy. I disagree and show you that joy can be felt by anyone, anywhere.

Worthless to who? You see how you just deny everyone their rights, their joy, their love and claim it's all bullshit without jesus. You have a lot to learn.

If you haven't experienced, or understood every other humans joy, then how can you claim it as being worthless bullshit? Just because the majority of people get joy from something other than jesus, doesn't make it any less in effect.

Anyway, a bit of food for thought: entering the kingdom of jesus might mean burning for eternity. That was the whole issue i've been talking about which you have completely ignored just so you can start personal attacks on me. You just expect people to "accept" your priests or your mothers version of the truth. Perhaps you should respect the fact that people have the right to their own beliefs and not try to force yours onto theirs. If you have something to debate against the issues i have stated then kindly do, otherwise do not post to me again. I don't need to hear your preaching.

Yeah like all of your posts to date: A chuff of wind. Hopefully gone tommorrow because it's starting to smell.

 

"The madman jumped into their midst and pierced them with his eyes. "Whither is God?" he cried; "I will tell you. We have killed him---you and I. All of us are his murderers. But how did we do this? How could we drink up the sea? Who gave us the sponge to wipe away the entire horizon? What were we doing when we unchained this earth from its sun? Whither is it moving now? Whither are we moving? Away from all suns? Are we not plunging continually? Backward, sideward, forward, in all directions? Is there still any up or down? Are we not straying, as through an infinite nothing? Do we not feel the breath of empty space? Has it not become colder? Is not night continually closing in on us? Do we not need to light lanterns in the morning? Do we hear nothing as yet of the noise of the gravediggers who are burying God? Do we smell nothing as yet of the divine decomposition? Gods, too, decompose. God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him" -Parable of the Madman

 

Which Christians are the Brightest???

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

Fire

Are you implying that Catholics are dumber then other Chrsitians?
or am I reading this wrong? I'm not Catholic myself but do know some ppl who are and they're bright.

When you say "we" who do you mean?

Cheers

Dave

 

davewhite04

hi, dave,
sorry about the misunderstanding. i know bright catholic's too. theology isn't really discussed, tho, on a personal level, so's i don't really get involved on those issues. i find catholic's keep their doctrinal issues to themselves and i respect that; they have their religion and i do not interpolate.
cheers

 

jdawg

hi, just a few quick points before i settle down to read your post more thoroughly. who actually said slavery was wrong? i'm asking the question solely from an observer position, too.
my concern is more about awareness rather than who thinks they are right or wrong. if i gain anything from your post, appreciated, and likewise, if u gain some self understanding- even if u don't agree with me- from a stance i have adopted, then that also is appreciated.

to me, if god says separate yourselves*, that's fine; but if man adopts the same resolution, then that is racism. man can try to emulate god but he cannot. rule no. 1: man is not god. nor will man's ways ever fulfil the requirements of god, and this is also part of the learning process. (the last statement is qualified, like so many statements i make, simply leaving u to reflect. it's not my role to tell u how to think or decide for yourself, but to give u the opportunity of the possibilities).

*the jewish race an example

get back to ya.

 

snake

hi.
u have raised some interesting questions. about the world's joy- it seems great, but there is a higher joy is all i am saying. when i said the world's joy is worthless, i mean't it. take britney, i love the hype and the glamour, but at the end of the day, she can't sing, she's got no idea about much, and the world lifts her up and pays her all this money, and she becomes another role model for the next generation of monkees, oopps, young teenagers.

...and shes not happy. so, as long as u are not unhappy, what ya got to be worried about? even the wealthy have no idea how to enjoy their wealth, or, really, how to use it effectively. yes, the mighty world of man is but a shadow of heaven.
get back to ya.

 

poet

ahh, the beauty of god ,eh poet.

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

arfternote: i like it! it gets better and better.
cheers

 

jdawg

hi,
i'll try to reply in stages, hope u don't mind. back to the slavery issue (remember, neutrality?); where does one equate slavery itself with inhumanity? i think u are simply using the history of mankind as the basis for tying inhumanity to slavery. is that a "law," inhumanity and slavery, or has inhumanity been practised in slavery? get my point?
the evolution of a child is beyond me, personally. my childhood was godless so far as religous education was concerned. i picked up the bible simply for myself to know, is there a true god and can that truth be found in this book, the bible. now, i found enlightenment, or, if u like, a higher plane i could relate to. an example: answer not a fool according to his folly...and; answer a fool according to his folly...all in one breath, (or statement). what could this mean, i say? my previous method of dealing with fools was to beat the crap out of them. understanding those principles of the fool, i was then able to deal with spite, and other worthless human traits- whereas once i had no defence.
be back to ya

 

jdawg

where did i once imply that all unbelievers were limited, or that all believers were unlimited?
not long ago i put a drill into the tip of my thumb. my thumbnail took the brunt of the force. i praised god for his foresight that he had thought of me when he designed us. does this imply that the thumbnail was there solely for my benefit? what does the non- believer think when he puts a drill into his nail? does he think?

 

snake

who holds the higher vantage point- the questionnaire or the answerer? if u wern't gaining something u would not continue asking. as the recipient to the field of questions i find it all rather one-sided. i understand where u are coming from but it is u who is on the outside looking in and not vice versa. u havn't been gracious enough to accept that.
u are welcome to everything u want to believe or not believe, and i will continue to fight anyone who slanders my lord and my god, as u have. that simple.
as a non- believer, do u really think i have a problem with that. no, but u are ignoring the simple fact that u have a problem with it.
and what about the little kids that swear by jesus? what are u offering? ohh, yeah... my eagles. the simple fact is, snake, that jesus offers eternal life, the eagles are but a moment. it's not my choice what u want. at least u have had another choice exposed, in black and white. u havn't enlightened me, not once. made me laugh a coupl'a times, tho. try a bit more humour, do ya good.
cheers

one thing i do appreciate about u, snake, is that u can take it on the chin. that, to me, speaks of strength and resourcefulness. have u heard the one? "all's well that ends well."
err..well..um...yes, actually, u have enlightened me a coupl'a times. shalom