Jupiter's Orbital Velocity & Equatorial Velocity cancel?

Discussion in 'Pseudoscience' started by nebel, Jul 31, 2017.

  1. nebel

    Messages:
    1,909
    I like you to have another look at this question:
    No I am not saying that, but if you look at it from the field of the sun "fixed" rather than from satellites moving moving with the planet. yes I am saying that for Saturn and Jupiter. To see why, please watch the animations in the videos below:
    http://www.animations.physics.unsw.edu.au/jw/rolling.htm
    Yes it is my contention, that seen from fixed points in line with the sun , watching a laser shining out from the equators of Saturn, Jupiter , the beam would linger in the noon position, but measure to move at ~ twice the orbital speed during the the midnight phase.
    To see the equivalent situation demonstrated in the NSW university videos, imagine the driving wheel carrying a laser shining on the floor and the ceiling during a rotation. The spot will come to a halt on the floor, but hurry along at twice the speed on the ceiling.
    Saturn, Jupiters equators move like that.
     
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  3. nebel

    Messages:
    1,909
    Janus, using your description here for the NSW uni videos,
    http://www.animations.physics.unsw.edu.au/jw/rolling.htm
    here is the point, The wheels, are at zero velocity touch with the road way,
    in the (VoxVr)xR application, the planets are in zero velocity touch with the milky way
     
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  5. nebel

    Messages:
    1,909
    In prograde planets, the rotational velocity is subtracting from the orbital velocity, because they both work in opposite directions on the sunny side. That can lead to longer exposures. Take the moon, using the (V0:Vr)xR formula puts us in the focus , the zero velocity zone, The moon can never escape earth shine, even during an"earth transit" , called a lunar eclipse here,--Raleigh scattering (thank you exchemist) will see to it. point being:
    The combination of rotation and revolution can really prolong the exposure time to the central source of [even reflected] radiation.
     
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  7. river

    Messages:
    12,737
    So nebel

    Are you saying that , north and south rotation cancels each other at the equator ?
     
  8. nebel

    Messages:
    1,909
    The only north to south rotation I can think of is the newly discovered doughnut with binary stars in 90 degrees orbit plane , dar matter halos, and of course Uranuns, who if you look doen from our north,, accepted even for the galaxy, rolls like a barrel, north to south, and yes, even here, when in line with the orbit movement, there is a near cancellation and doubling of orbital and rotational velocities for the widest part, just like a ball rolls at so that at the one contact point. it is at rest with the field.
    On Jupiter the OP, there is no north south rotation. but latitude bands. a gradient from pole to equator. Only the midday equator would not be in a blur with a narrowly focused camera. Poles and sunup and sundown regions zipping by. all while the rotation itself is steady. counterintuitive, yes, rotational reality, yes.
     
  9. river

    Messages:
    12,737
    Think again

    The Sun has both , north pole and south pole rotation . As does Earth .

    Which both meet at the equator of both
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2019
  10. nebel

    Messages:
    1,909
    This thread is about two velocities,1) revolution, orbital and 2) rotational, spin. the interaction between the two.
    Please provide a sketch, or description about polar rotations meeting at the equator. perhaps it is worthy of another topic.?
    There is no rotation right at the poles, Earth and Sun rotate around their "stationary" geographic poles. or?
     
  11. river

    Messages:
    12,737
    There is rotation right at the poles . It would be a weak but focused rotation
     
  12. nebel

    Messages:
    1,909
    indeed, but it would be hard to pinpoint the absolute central axis point at any given time, with the moon and planets all pulling to get their barycentres right. The idea of this thread was, that the poles are sailing in their orbits at a steady pace, equidistant that they are to the center of mass. The combined velocities of rotation and orbit at the equator, as seen from a steady point is another matter. with the formula (Vo:Vr) x Radius, all outer planets show the velocities matching within ~ twice the radius. The Earth/ Moon have matching velocities in their respective orbits! Venus and Mars touching each other orbits long range, due to Venus' slow. retrograde rotation. so
    Where the polar rotation comes into this scheme, I dont know. Poles are the axes. steady. It is not there where orbit /spin velocities add up or subtract. thank you.
     
  13. nebel

    Messages:
    1,909
    "--it is a mystery how bands like these are confined to such narrow widths, because Uranus and Neptune have very broad westward-blowing wind jets.--"
    quoted from

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    ynamic atmospheres of Uranus, Neptune." ScienceDaily. ScienceDaily, 7 February 2019. <www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/02/190207114955.htm>
    a reminder, that near- cancellation of orbital and rotational velocities near the midriff of the outer planets creates an enhanced gravitational and thermal gradient.
     
  14. nebel

    Messages:
    1,909
    In this quote from
    Science Daily "Dynamic atmospheres of Uranus, Neptune. Date: February 7, 2019; Source: NASA/Goddard Space Flight Center; Summary: NASA's Hubble Space Telescope ",
    These westward blowing winds would appear to go in a direction contrary to the rotation. In the present alternative theory, they would somehow have their origin
    on the night side of planets except for Venus, because it is there, as shown in the sketch below, with respect to the "stationary" planetary field, the Vo and Vr add up. Or, by way of illustration , If you measured the windspeed on the NSW University bike example, on top of the tire going forward, the apparent windspeed would be double the speed in your face. face it. Now, can greater movement through space influence atmospheric dynamics? ?

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    If space influences the planets, the outer combined velocities would induce counterrotating phenomenas at night.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2019
  15. nebel

    Messages:
    1,909
    http://pluto.jhuapl.edu/News-Center/News-Article.php?page=20190208 (thank you Yazata).
    Because it is relevant, Commenting here on the flatness of Ultima Thule, the flattening of the two objects should have something to do with the spin (prior or after merger) of the accumulated matter. The method of finding the "squashed "shape, --the background star occultation,- also suggests tumble not only spin.
    Using the formula (Vorbit: Vrotation)xRadius for the other enigmatic object Oumuamua, gave the same values as the average steroid. so: it will be interesting when rotation data are published. for the squashed snowman.
    when an object spins fast enough, depending on the material, the it will flatten, and the smaller body is flattened less (walnut compared to pancake). The spin model fits.
     
  16. nebel

    Messages:
    1,909
    It started with Jupiter and led to startling results for many bodies, so, let us apply (Vo:Vr)xR to KBO 2014Mug69 aka Ultima Thule
    Orbital velocity: ~16 000 km/h; diameter long axis 32km; rotation period 15 hrs. Circumference travel of rotating tip ~ 100km, rotational velocity 6.7 km/h,
    16000:6.7= 2388 x 16*= 38 208 km. distant Zero Velocity Zone ~ 1/3 the value seen for Oumuamua or the average asteroid. * UT rotates off center, so the outer tip describes a larger circle, possibly lowering the value for the zero velocity zone.
    for what it is worth. most other bodies' data have given meaningful results. see page# 7 post# 140
    doing pseudo science with real life data.
    As a side note: both lobes, Ultima and Thule had their distinct rotations before their merger, and if prograde, at point of contact must have had opposing directions, grinding with added speed, unlike Venus and Earth, or Mars, which would touch with more synchronisation.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2019
  17. nebel

    Messages:
    1,909
    This thread is about the cancellation of opposing orbital and rotational velocities on the sunny sides of most planets (Venus excepted).
    In 150 days there will be a solar eclipse visible in sunny Chile's telescope countryside. The Moon then will be at a point where, were the earth radius extended, be at zero velocity with respect to the Earth surface and the sun. Or, to picture it another way, a ring at moon distance affixed rigidly to the earth surface would be at standstill, like a tire on the road with respect to the ecliptic field. A minor coincident of the (V orbit : V rotation) x Radius formula.
     
  18. nebel

    Messages:
    1,909
    Here is another stunning Jupiter picture, (c) BBC/ Nasa/Caltech/ Gill and a reminder that the enigma BBC mentions might include the fact, that the clear equatorial region is where the clouds are at at near standstill with respect to the illuminating sun.

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    just like the tires of the revived 1000 mph Bloodhound car (c) Lochhart/Farrington/ Telegraph

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    with the car&driver hopefully going at 1000+ mph, the tires will touch the road at zero velocity,* just like Jupiter's equator the Mach Inertia Field.
    * the tires will just be freely spinning, like Jupiter
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2019
  19. nebel

    Messages:
    1,909
    A very close look at Jupiter situation, the theme of the OP is, that
    The moon Europa is the one that is closest in the zero velocity position when lined up with the sun, the stellar Mach field. To be exact: Europa Vo 13.74 km/s Jupiter Vo. 13.1 km/s
    Jupiter's equator rotates ~ 3% slower than that, and the poles not at all, so, a gradient exists during noon between Europa at standstill increasing toward the poles, sunup and sun down at full Orbital Velocity.
    Strong magnetic resonance interaction in the Europa/ Ganymede region have been detected. is there a zero velocity connection possible?
     
  20. nebel

    Messages:
    1,909
    In the light of the OP, Looking at Saturn, It has 2 zero velocity situations, or an extended zero velocity area too, like Jupiter of OP frame.
    The moons Rhea with 8.49 km/s and Dionne 10.3 km/sec orbital velocity move backward against and ~cancel Saturn's parent prograde orbital velocity of 9.7 km/sec and almost equally backward it's V- surface rotation of < 9.87 km/s. so.
    Although at different distances from the center, at Saturn are multiple areas where matter is at a standstill at noon with respect to the Sun , on the planet and the moons in transit! and
    If our Moon at 384 000 Km orbit radius would be considered to be at Saturn, it would be right in the zero velocity zone middle, between Rhea and Dionne (see mystery planet).
    alternative theories material here!?
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2019
  21. nebel

    Messages:
    1,909
    and with all these moon's rotation in tidal lock with their parent body, would not their surfaces, not only their center of mass all be at a near standstill at noon, during transit? four values all coinciding adding, subtracting up to nearly zero? like with the Saturn system?
     
  22. nebel

    Messages:
    1,909
    When we give the orbital velocity of Jupiter as 13.07 km/sec. we mean that as measured against the Sun or other stellar sidereal "fixed" frame of reference. Measured against that same "fixed" field, the equator at noon moves at 12.6 km/sec slower, at only 4% of the sidereal speed at the poles. so, while
    The planet more or less turns steadily, like a turntable on itself, in the solar, stellar field, there is a shear from the noon equator's .47 km/sec.* rotational/ orbital velocity to the 13.07 km/sec at the poles. If there is anything happening in that field, this shear, this difference in velocities would surely have some effects.
    The moon Europa from the stellar perspective by contrast is at noon going 5 % faster retrograde.
    * coincidentally very close to the Earth's real equatorial rotating velocity of .46 km/sec.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2019
  23. nebel

    Messages:
    1,909
    There is a universal constant, the value for "c" the peed of light, or gravitational change. At the other end of the spectrum would be "zero velocity" with respect to a near universal reference frame, the sidereal or star field.
    While at c movement through time comes to a halt. the opposite is true of standstill, movement through time is normal, or at it's maximum.
    This thread has pointed out many areas where movement against the sidereal field truly is near a standstill, movement through time at it's best.
     

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