Just a question I'll probably regret

I'm curious about the posters at this forum and their regard for Satanism.

Truth be told, I find Satanism useless by experience; the philosophy limits its followers within themselves as much--if not more so--than any others.

But I've noticed that the one thing people want to distance themselves from is supporting it.

Between Anton LaVey and Michael Aquinas, there are at least two Satanic Church groups operating legally, as religions, in the United States.

Now I'll be the first to admit that their Bible is just a little bit strange. But there's nothing so savage or "evil" as such that can't be found throughout the Bible and the efforts of the Christians who followed it.

Add to that LaVey's polar obsession with Christianity, and we start to see a movement that came about much like recent presidential votes. You don't NECESSARILY become a Satanist to redeem yourself in His Glory, but most Satanists I knew came in for shelter from the conservative religious storm brewing over oceans of propaganda and paranoia.

So, essentially, I'm wondering ... if we cannot hold an individual Christian in the modern day responsible for the acts of Christians who are not that individual ....

Well, what do we really know about Satanism? My own lack of knowledge contributed to my dropping the idea ... but at no time did I feel our actions should have motivated anyone to fear.

Are we, then, distancing ourselves from the bizarre murders we hear about in small towns, when alcoholic children of violent, alcoholic parents (who often think of themselves as Christian) kills someone and says, "The Devil made me do it. All hail Satan!"?

I guess that's sort of the question ... I don't understand the need for distance.

I remember my second official "Mystical sign" that it was time to go ... This guy came to me with a pact that he had actually written in his own damn blood. That was stupid, scary, and his own problem to figure out. But it's a far cry from two drunk twits in Mississippi, angry at their parents, yelling "Satan! Satan!" as they bash in the skull of an associate.

Just curious, in the end. Sorry to be so wordy about it, but it's kind of making me curious why we're afraid of being associated to the idea. Without Christianity to object, Satanism probably wouldn't exist at all.

It's as harmless as any other religion.

--Tiassa

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The Universe is the Practical Joke of the General at the Expense of the Particular .... (Perdurabo; The Book of Lies)

 

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Tiassa,

Although I don't exactly believe in the Christian God or the Christian Satan as such, I do believe in the polar opposites of Good and Evil. To me, the Church of Satan worships all that is Evil. I knew a woman who did foster care for children who had been extricated from some rather extreme family circumstances. Some of these children had been the victims of Satanists, and had been used in rituals that included sex and human sacrifice. The children were required to participate in both. Needless to say, these children were scarred for life!!

Maybe the church you belonged to didn't practice these things, or maybe you never got far enough beyond the neophyte stage to find out, who knows? But yes, I consider it evil and I do distance myself from it.

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Man, you're on a philosophical roll tonight aren't you? Keeping me thinking anyway. I don't know much about the practice of Satanism. To me it implies a belief in the same Satan that I believe in, but from the perspective that he is more powerful than God. Not necessarily better than God, because it is not their intent to glorify goodness, but evil I'm assuming. I see it as a rebellion to Christianity. It wouldn't exist without it. It's the ultimate slap in the face to Christianity, and is probably propagated by sin within the Christian church if I were to take an educated guess. It is so arbitrary and contradictory in that it draws enough from the Christian faith to even believe in the existence and identity of Satan, but then chooses to ignore the messages regarding the consequence of worshipping him. They say to hell with consequences, believing naively that they will enjoy their time spent with him in the afterlife. I say that if they chose to believe enough of the Bible to believe in the existence of Satan, that it would only be logical, and for crying out loud their best interest, to believe the rest of the message as well.

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"Uh, hello Satan?"
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Whoa whoa whoa! Has anybody here read Anton LaVey's Satanic Bible? In it he out and out calls blood sacrifice in the form of homicide a terrible waste of life and tells his followers NOT to do it! He specifically states that in his rituals his followers SYMBOLICALLY sacrifice, much as Christians SYMBOLICALLY eat the flesh and drink the blood of their Lord. He does NOT advocate harming anyone, especially children, for they are the satanists of the future. The intentional harming and waste of life is a sign of sickness in his beliefs. His teachings are closer to the Wiccan Reade than anything. "And it harm none, do what ye will" becomes simply "Do what thou wilst".

He openly admits that the rituals do not call on any power. They are only there to strengthen the unity of the group because humans love ritual.

His start came from his witnessing all the drunken carousing and fornication that carried on Saturday nights only to see those same people acting so pure and righteous come Sunday morning. It was the hypocrisy that sickened him, so he went the opposite way. He was not a murderer, so of course he allowed no death in his church (except in old age, of course, or things beyond the victim's control).

The evil, drooling, Satanist with the bloody knife clenched in his black-gloved fist, a silver, inverted pentagram hanging from his neck, laughing maniacally as he vivisects innocent children is the stuff of Hollywood. Satanists serve proudly in the armed forces, teach in our schools, and work in our hospitals. The person who cashes your paycheck may be a Satanist. The only way to tell them apart is by their core belief, which is simply one of not denying themselves their pleasures, so long as no one is hurt. They despise abstinence, and that is what puts them at odds with the Christian doctrines.

I know. I moved in their circles once.

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Oxygen,

Right from the start I will admit to you that I know less about Satanism than I do about most religions. This is by conscious choice, due to my own feelings about it and what little I've been told by others.

As for the foster kids my friend took in, all I know is that she said that they were from a family of Satanists. She got that information from the Social Workers on the case. How accurate that information might have been is anyone's guess. I can tell you, though, those kids had some serious problems!!

Are all Satanists created equal? I wouldn't know, but I doubt it. There's much I don't know about Satanism, partially because I have chosen to distance myself from it, and partially because not that many people are willing to come out and discuss it openly. But it seems to me, at least on the surface of it, that anyone who is drawn to Satanism must also drawn to the concept of evil, at least initially.

The whole subject is so distasteful to me, I don't even know where to begin asking questions! Quite honestly, it's beginning to make me feel nauseous as I type! I don't usually react that way to the unknown, and you must be as bewildered by my reaction to Satanism as I am by the typical Christian reactions to Witchcraft and Paganism, in general. I really don't know what else to say, except...yuck!! (I'm bewildered by it too! Sorry

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Searcher,

I've met the creep. He's deceitful, yes, and repulsive if you realize it's him, but, he's not all that tough so I wouldn't let Satanism get to me.

Besides, Satan and his followers can be found all around us in this world in varying degrees. Many people don't even realize that they are doing the work of Satan. They jump on the bandwagon and join in turning good into evil. Look how many people have turned against God - and God loves us all! Satan is doing the happy dance about that!

Satan hates. Do you know who he hates the most? Jesus Christ. Do you know why? Because Jesus Christ leads souls away from Satan's kingdom and into the kingdom of heaven.



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Yesterday's history. Tomorrow's a mystery. Today is a "gift." That's why we call it "the present."
What will you do with your gift of today?

 

TS,
How do you know that Jesus wasn't just some dude who infact was out of control in his thinking....I mean what if he started out as
a good spiritual teacher...teaching real truths...got soooooo caught up in it all that before he knew it he had conviced himself that he was the son of God. Then in turn started telling others he was..and they all bought it..just like christians alike today are still buying it? So..then..wouldn't Jesus be the true deceiver?

 

Well Flash,

His conception was immaculate. The virgin birth of Jesus Christ fulfilled prophecies. Many knew of the signs that would immediately precede His birth. The maji followed the star, as it was predicted, and found him in the manger. Herod wanted Him dead when He was an infant because he knew who He was! His parents had to flee with Him to Egypt to avoid His death. Herod ordered the massacre of infants in an attempt to kill Him. This had also been prophecized.

You are not going to believe this! As I am reading and telling this story of the massacre of the infants, tears are falling onto the pages of the Bible!!! (There are no leaks above, the tears are NOT mine, and NOONE else is here!!!) Praise Jesus!!!

His family ended up in Nazareth. It had also been prophecized that He would be a Nazorean.

Sorry Flash, I'll have to finish this later...

 

TS,

HUH???????????
Where are they coming from then, TS??????
Are you for real????? Perhaps you are tired
and...??????

 

I must say I am virtually ignorant about Satanism.

I don't really have much of an opinion about it, either. I think there are those that are a little bit, aw heck, a lot screwed up in the head, and use this image of pure evil to validate their terrible actions. I doubt those are 'true' Satanists, in the way Tiassa is meaning.

As long as they're not harming anyone, I think they should be allowed to do whatever they want. Free country, and all that. You won't find me becoming one, simply because I don't follow that whole Christian God/Satan theory, but I'm not about to tell some other adult he/she can't worship who/whatever they want to, assuming they don't harm others.

 

See? And I was just taking an educated guess. What started Satanism? Sin in the Christian church. Sin. Not faith, not God, not Jesus, but sin, and the very same sin which is identified as such in the Bible. Sin my friends is dangerous. See how dangerous, and it seems to become even more so when committed within the church or in the name of God. It's all in the Bible.

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Flash,
I've had a similar theory for years.
I believe that Jesus existed yes and I believe he was erudite with wisdom, I also think he was a spiritual genius! he learnt the scriptures from a very young age, he then observed his society and he was sickened by the hypocrisy of the Rabbi's and priests.

Some non Christian scholars believe that he travelled to India before commencing his mission and it would have been natural for him to learn about Hindu philosophy and sorcery while he was there. A lot of Christian 'philosophy' already existed in Hinduism.
It is also possible that the Maji stayed with him while he was growing up, sowing the seed of their belief into the young Jesus and his awe struck parents and teaching him and guiding him in his/their mission.

If it's true about the Maji then I don't think Jesus was deceiving anybody, because he genuinely believed that he was the Christ.In the very end though, even he had his doubts, 'Oh Father, why have you forsaken me?'

His miracles? maybe genuine maybe illussionism, maybe mass hysteria, maybe a knowledge of essential first aid such as,'the kiss of life' or heart massage etc.

Fulfilling prophecies? manipulated by the Maji, his inner cicle and others who wanted to subvert the status quo.

Ressurection? it could have been staged.The prophecy had to be seen to be fulfilled, mass hysteria would have made it very believable and necessary.
Maybe we should open a new thread for this one?

Satanism.
Whether anybody is a Christian or not, they know what Satan stands for, which is apparently, the epitome and manifestation of all evil and I mean spiritual evil as well as physical.
Now if somebody wanted to 'worship' him, in the sense of taking part in drunken/drugged/sex orgies (I don't know, maybe Tiassa can enlighten us), that I could understand, though I couldn't do it.
But (and there's always a but), if they actually believe in this deity and have faith in it (usually to grant them 'heaven' on earth)and they pray to it with selfish and wicked hearts, then they begin to be dangerous because I think prayers to any God, god/ess or object and even deep wishing/meditating can work according to the strength of your faith.

The added danger arises when these people (who are presumably intent on evil) silently and insidiously infiltrate all levels of industry and government, thereby encouraging and promoting mass greed, jealousy, discontent and crime.
While stifling true spiritual growth and progressive social ideas.
Can you imagine Satanists running the world?
I bet you they already are, at least in part.

Happy new year to you all, don't get too bombed, think of your precious brain.

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Flash,

The tears were coming out of mid-air. First, I heard them hitting the pages. I thought, huh? As I looked down, more continued to fall. I looked up to see if there was a leak and there was not. I was hit by some, which I saw coming out of mid-air. I tasted them and they were salty. When I did this, I "felt" and "envisioned" the presence of a woman. I cannot say for sure, but my gut tells me that the Mother of Jesus was shedding tears for those infants who were massacred.

The pages are now dry but spotted.

 

Tab,

You're not insinuating that the great leader of my beloved country could possibly be a...nah - couldn't be!!

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Flash,

Something that you may want to consider is that Jesus was not by far the first or only one to identify Himself as the Son of God. Are you aware of how many prophecies of the OT were fulfilled by His birth? NOW THAT was one time when an angel of the LORD did appear and speak to us. How many were fulfilled thoughout His life? How many were fulfilled when He died? How many when He was resurrected? Hundreds, that's how many. Hundreds and hundreds. And perfectly to the letter, not like Nostradamus or Edgar Cayce. Truth is that you're betting your life on a scenario that has no proof whatsoever, and is complete speculation. It's so irreconcilable to me how you can only believe the parts of the Bible that you want to, and then when you get to a part you don't understand, you say, well, I guess this is when he got disallusioned? Wouldn't it be a little more prudent, just for the sake of being conservative, to assume that you just might not understand everything in it's entirety, or that you may be mistaken about some things? There is nothing anywhere that backs up what you're speculating. I just can't help but think that you are taking a giant flying leap of faith into a very convenient and fluffy pile of dung.

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"Go Jesus, go! Go Jesus, go!"

I finally get to be the cheerleader that I always wanted to be but could not, as I was not a fluff chick.

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Tab,
May I ask ..is this your own theory or were you taught this? If you were taught.. and if you would like to share..who taught you this? It is pretty close to what I believe so I am just curious..

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Lori,
You know I didn't just pull my belief out of my butt...
I was taught this by the Spirit of Truth!
(are you shocked??? See...I am telling more and more)
Hey, I started a new thread just for you regarding your so called prophecies ..

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[This message has been edited by Flash (edited January 01, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Flash (edited January 01, 2000).]

 

Flash,
It's all my own theory, in fact the bit about the Maji indoctrinating Jesus into his life mission came to me as I was replying to you.
I could really get into this subject but I'm a bit hung over at the moment

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Tab,

Sorry to hear about your crapulent state this morning! I'm sure you're not alone in that! I hope you get back to feeling like an eiderdown soon!

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Ah ha! What's an eiderdown?!?!?!

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"Go Jesus, go! Go Jesus, go!"

I finally get to be the cheerleader that I always wanted to be but could not, as I was not a fluff chick.

 

Lori,

"Ah ha"? Ah ha, what? An eiderdown is a duck-feather quilt.

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