Kurds abandomed by Trump

Discussion in 'World Events' started by mathman, Oct 10, 2019.

  1. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    29,528
    We didn't bow out of the conflict. We're still there, trying to grab the oil - just not threatening Trump's real estate investments in Istanbul.

    Turkey is not much of an ally of ours.
    The Kurds were.
    No.
    But the Kurds might have been able to.
    Remember those posts from Schmelzer, that guy you "like", about the legitimacy of a people wanting to secede from big government and form their own country?
    In a wingy post, anything after an "if" is bullshit. They are incapable of a relevant "if".

    In this case, the standard Republican response - to taxes, charity for the poor, health care, infrastructure maintenance, foreign aid, public anything.

    How about: if you're so keen on restricting military force to defending the oil companies and real estate con men of the world, why not sign up with one of the mercenary forces currently doing just that?
    Makes as much sense - and has the advantage of alignment with your actual posting, no "interpretation" necessary.
    - - - -
    Poe's Law called. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe's_law
     
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  3. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    the fact you think would risk a shooting incident with us troops tells me you don't know anything about geopolitics. its precisely because the US military could fuck up their world is why leaving troops there would have prevented turkey from invading.
     
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  5. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    the polish would disagree with such an assessment
     
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  7. mmatt9876 Registered Senior Member

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    Do the Turks have a specific reason for attacking the Kurds or is it just hatred?
     
  8. Yazata Valued Senior Member

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    The Kurds are a majority in much of southeast Turkey. They have their own language and culture and many of them favor independence. (Kurds are linguistically related to Armenians, except the Kurds adopted Islam while the Armenians remained Christian.) The Turks see the Kurds as a threat to the unity of Turkey. Until 1991, the Turks denied the existence of the Kurds in Turkey, calling them "mountain Turks" and outlawed Kurdish customs, use of the Kurdish language and Kurdish names.

    And one of the stronger political parties among the Kurds is the PKK, which for years has been waging a low-level civil war in Turkey, conducting attacks on police stations, car bombings and so on. The PKK has been accused of use of suicide bombers, child soldiers and indiscriminate attacks on civilians. The Turkish response wasn't exactly gentle and probably equally brutal and indiscriminate. Thousands have died on both sides. Turkey considers the PKK a terrorist organization as does the EU, US, Canada, Australia, UK, France, Germany and many other countries.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdistan_Workers'_Party

    Erdogan's current Turkish government does not like the PKK. And Erdogan sees the Syrian Kurdish YPG (People's Protection Units, the major component of the Syrian Democratic Forces coalition) as being the Syrian arm of the PKK. For years, Syria (and indirectly the Soviets) funded the PKK and Syria served as a refuge for PKK militants and hosted their training camps. Turkey is determined to prevent that from happening again.

    The YPG insist that they are independent of the PKK and a purely Syrian thing. That may well be true, but it's obvious that they are closely aligned and share an ideology.

    The Iraqi Kurds are separate from all this and have their own political background.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2019
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  9. CptBork Robbing the Shalebridge Cradle Valued Senior Member

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    Once upon a time, before the invention of toilet paper and the advent of modern western democracies, Turkey was the big show in town. Their accomplishments and triumphs have since been left light years behind in the dustbin of human progress, so to continue feeling relevant and important in today's modern world, they're required to find defenseless regional minorities to oppress and deny basic rights to, like a 45 year-old sack of lard who decides to take up boxing one day and dreams of beating down Mike Tyson in his prime after a week of practising on punching bags and 10 year-old daughters.
     
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  10. mmatt9876 Registered Senior Member

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    It sounds like Turkey considers some of the Kurdish people living on it territory terrorists because some of these Kurdish people have been waging a low-level civil war in Turkey and favor independence from Turkey. Maybe these Kurdish actions and views are due to Turkey denying the existence of Kurdish people living in Turkey, and outlawing Kurdish customs, language, and names, before 1991? Did the Kurdish low-level war spark the violence directed at them by the Turks? Does anybody have a solution for this conflict?
     
  11. mmatt9876 Registered Senior Member

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    757
    That is sad.
     
  12. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    The Universal declaration of human rights (1948) was and is a good start. Especially Article 18.
    "Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance. "
    But a lot of it is a generational problem.
    Basically all confict finds causation in some one trying to tell someone else what to believe and what to do with out their consent.
     
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  13. CptBork Robbing the Shalebridge Cradle Valued Senior Member

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    There's also the good old classic "Hey, you don't look like I do or speak my language, so you either have to worship me for how I look and enslave yourself to my tribe, or I'll use technology I stole from sympathetic westerners to invade your country, steal your land and then pretend I'm there to fight terrorism and stuff."
     
  14. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    The PKK terrorism was more the response, the State terrorism of the Turkish government the original incitement.
     
  15. mmatt9876 Registered Senior Member

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    Would you consider the act of Turkey denying the existence of the Kurdish people in Turkey and outlawing Kurdish customs, language, and names a violation of The Universal Declaration of Human Rights?
     
  16. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    Just my thoughts....
    Keeping in mind the long history of ethnic and sectarian violence for that part of the world, the grudges held due to historical human rights crimes committed on both sides it is not as simple as that.
    Sure of course, any forced and enforced oppression is an act contrary to the UDHR.
    Even though Turkey is a signatory to the UDHR it doesn't prevent it, like many other signatories, including the USA, Australia etc, from putting it aside when they believe national security issues are a priority. ( or at least pretend that this is the case)
    The UDHR and the Islamic version , CDHRI are voluntary declarations and offer no compulsion other than that of a moral, ethical nature.

    The primary purpose of the UDHR IMO was to inspire nations to a way of acting that enabled peaceful co-existence between the various ethnic, cultural and religious groupings, essentially to prevent another global conflagration. By recognizing that the fundamental need for freedom of belief and thought ( Article 18 ) is essential if the world was to evolve towards a more harmonious and peaceful state. ( with out unduly compromising personal freedom)
    IMO every individual person on this planet could benefit by signing the UDHR (especially Article 18) and not just nations as it is is at the heart of every conflict between people and nations.
    If Turkey seeks to resolve it's dispute with the Kurdish people then they really need to take the Kurdish cultural and ethnic needs seriously and help facilitate an eventual solution that involves a mutually beneficial co-existence.

    But as I suggested it is a vexatious issue given the painful history of the region and the ability to let go of past atrocities may be extremely hard to do. ( both sides)
    I fear it will take generational change which means a long term strategy is needed that may involve many years of transition and the nature of short term political leadership inhibits any really long term solutions from being put in place.
    They need a hundred year plan and they can only work with a 10 years plan at the most... ( sort of problem)
    How can the world come to understand how important Article 18 is to human coexistence?
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2019 at 2:34 AM
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  17. mmatt9876 Registered Senior Member

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    It sounds like cooperation, working together, and mutual understanding may be the best solution for the violence that has been going on between Turkey and the Kurds for years.
     
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